Is Gergiev as good as his reputation suggests?

[LeMartinPecheur]

Beckus and Ariadne?

OK, my mistake, nobody told me Beckus and Bacchus were currently on a job-swap

[Ariosto]

I've never played for Gergiev so I can't really say what he is like. On the other hand, watching him from a very close position live, and on TV etc., I don't have any problem with his conducting and find him easy to follow. I have played for Tilson Thomas and he was competent, but a little boring.

I have heard some excellent, indeed outstanding, Gergiev performances. I have not heard him do Beethoven, Mozart, Haydn, Schubert, or Brahms, but then very few Russian conductors (other than those mentioned) can perform such composers very well. I've played a lot for Marris Jansens - excellent in some repertoir, but he can't do Viennese stuff too well.

Personally I think the rant against Gergiev is a little overdone. I've not heard members of the LSO complaining too much so far. But I may be wrong about that, I don't know. I'm not that much in touch these days, but then, are you Ventihorn?

[Ventilhorn]

Personally I think the rant against Gergiev is a little overdone. I've not heard members of the LSO complaining too much so far. But I may be wrong about that, I don't know. I'm not that much in touch these days, but then, are you Ventihorn?

As a matter of fact - Yes

VH

[Ariosto]

As a matter of fact - Yes

VH

fair enough ventilhorn. I must ask around next time I bump into people, or I'm doing some chamber music.

Is it my take on these things, or do orchestral players complain a bit less about conductors these days?

[Ventilhorn]

Is it my take on these things, or do orchestral players complain a bit less about conductors these days?

My experience is that they just look forward to the arrival of the next one and, if neccesary, give the present conductor the interpretation of the last one that was any good. (If their memory extends that far back)

Conductors and orchestras are like ships passing in the night these days, so why not just get on with it and play for the audience's pleasure?

VH

[Mahlerei]

Gergiev doesn't do very much for me, i must admit, but his Mariinsky recording of The Nose is pretty damn good. Otherwise his DSCH is wildly variable, his Mahler frankly perplexing.

[Ariosto]

For your amusement or horror, here is a clip of him conducting the Shostakovich 11th. Apparently he had been claiming 'the baton is not important, it doesn't matter what I hold' and so he's conducting this with a toothpick:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYnzg...eature=related

That seems to me to be an excellent example of clear conducting - even using a toothpick.

Good orchestra - which one was it?

Further comment unecessary, and you know me, I'm always positive about conductors.

[johnb]

I think there is a lot of ignorant rubbish spouted in relation to Gergiev. His forte is the Russian reportoire, for the rest - either forget it or don't have extremely high expectations. However, even though his performances are 'variable' (probably at least in part due to his frenetic schedule) when he is good his performances of the Russians can be outstanding.

As for his conducting style - this is a verbatim quote from an interview that Edward Downes gave some years ago:

If you have the music in your head, you can turn round and wave your arse at the orchestra and they will play it. That is to say, if you have it firmly in your head, if you know exactly what you want to hear, if you've got an ideal performance in your head - you will find the gesture. When people talk about technique - if you look at some of the most famous and successful conductors - when you look at Furtwangler for example..he had it there and, somehow or other, the art or gift of being a conductor was conveyed by his gesture because it was already there, that is the secret of conducting. There are lots of conductors with magnificent techniques... but it doesn't touch your heart.

[kamanetzki]

I watched Gergiev conduct the LSO in the Rite of Spring a couple of years ago. It was dreadful. Lack of any clear beat, distortions of pace so passages were too slow or too fast and passages where the woodwind didn't understand his beat and made errors. I've also heard him do some terrific concerts so he's a very inconsistent conductor.
On another topic, I don't think he does the LSO any favours as a so-called Principal conductor. Gergiev spread himself too thin by rushing all over the world on his hectic schedule. The sound of the LSO has become rather brash and the exciting brass department seems now just too excitable and not in balance. The LSO would do well to listen to the Concertgebouw for playing of power, subtlety and refinement and think of having a conductor who is a proper Music Director and not just someone who's passing by London and onto his next appointment.

[johnb]

On another topic, I don't think he does the LSO any favours as a so-called Principal conductor. Gergiev spread himself too thin by rushing all over the world on his hectic schedule. The sound of the LSO has become rather brash and the exciting brass department seems now just too excitable and not in balance. The LSO would do well to listen to the Concertgebouw for playing of power, subtlety and refinement and think of having a conductor who is a proper Music Director and not just someone who's passing by London and onto his next appointment.

This was always the danger when they appointed Gergiev and I agree with that they now need to find a proper Music Director.

[cloughie]

This was always the danger when they appointed Gergiev and I agree with that they now need to find a proper Music Director.

Someone of the calibre the BBCSO has just appointed!

[BBMmk2]

I can't wait for the cycle of the Tchaikovsky Symphonies to be completed! Might wait tO see if LSO Live will be making a boxed set of thrm.

[Prommer]

I second all the sentiments re Gergiev's variability. He is miles better in opera, generally speaking. Not sure why or how, as that requires more preparation, coordination and discipline than orchestral music, so that's the first mystery. His debut in London was I think in 1997, when he conducted Lohengrin of massive character, shape and dramatic weight - truly exciting, slightly throwback stuff. Even then, he was exhibiting however his predilection for exaggerated tempi and all the rest of it. This year, his Mariinsky Parsifal at the Barbican was very fine indeed, marred only slightly by some of the soloists.

I'm not sure he is suited to being a trainer of an orchestra or its music director. He has done it in Russia because he became identified with the company at the Kirov, and it is tied to him and he to it. Elsewhere, he is revealed as too hyperactive, inconsistent and undisciplined.

Aside from ambition, and an unwillingness to say no, part of it is that he is a reluctant rehearser and a believer in live performance and the charge that can give to music-making. The result? As with a Knappertsbusch, some truly great occasions (still with lapses) and many duds.

[Ferretfancy]

I get the impression that the LSO rehearse thoroughly with other staff beforehand, possibly following his advance instructions, and that somehow or other he then jets in and works magic on the night. That's the legend, anyway. Are there any performers among us who can really tell us how these performances are prepared? I'm told that for the marvellous Proms performance of the complete Sleeping Beauty, Gergiev flew in from Moscow only an hour or so before the concert started.

The range is certainly limited. The younger Rhozdestvensky covered much the same ground with the visiting Soviet orchestras, but he could also deliver good performances of Vaughan Williams and Nielsen too, something that I don't think Gergiev could achieve.

[Richard Tarleton]

I second all the sentiments re Gergiev's variability. He is miles better in opera, generally speaking. Not sure why or how, as that requires more preparation, coordination and discipline than orchestral music, so that's the first mystery. His debut in London was I think in 1997

I first saw him in London on 9 November 1997, conducting the then Kirov in a semi-staged Boris (original version) at Drury Lane. It was a fundraising gala for the Kirov. A few lines of Fiona Maddocks' review are worth repeating...

Since the work is about suitability to reign, the presence of the Prince of Wales (welcomed by the Kirov Orchestra in a wildly cavalier performance of the National Anthem) added a certain frisson......Gergiev's hard-driven vigour inspired an ardent performance from the soloists, chorus and orchestra alike

.