Why the glaring omission?

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I had hoped to learn something about the vast family of Bachs (what IS the collective noun?), and not just JS.

It's not that simple. J.S.Bach was a baroque composer, but his sons were an important part of the transition to the classical period, regarding their dad as rather old-hat. They thrived during that short, bleak period of musical history (1750-70) from which little or no music of lasting greatness has been passed on to us.

[prokkyshosty]

about the vast family of Bachs (what IS the collective noun?)

Bax?

[Auferstehen2]

I don’t know how to do different quotes from different posts, so

prokkyshosty

Eine Alpensinfonie. I AM surprised, really I am, as I thought that CPE Bach was a major composer in his own right.

You may or may not be aware that I’m currently taking music theory and funnily enough my assignment for this year was “The Classical Era” which I believe, was about 1750 – 1820. Preceding it, the Baroque Era was 1600 – 1750.

But CPE Bach (1714 – 1788) was actually part of the Classical Era for less than 30 years. While it is true that I cannot name a single important work by CPE Bach, I always thought this was more a reflection of my ignorance of him, rather than of his insignificance! Furthermore, you mention that short, bleak period of musical history (1750 – 1770), ending when Beethoven was born.

Can you enlighten me please? What short, bleak period is this, and anyway, didn’t great artists usually find times of stress brought out the best in them (e.g. the Eroica)?

I’m most grateful for your answers,

Mario

[PatrickOD]

I’m most grateful for your answers,

Mario

Really?

What is your question, again?

[vinteuil]

... that short, bleak period of musical history (1750-70) from which little or no music of lasting greatness has been passed on to us.

... an extraordinary statement....





At this time some were doing their greatest work - Handel, Geminiani, Telemann, Mattheson, Rameau, Porpora, Graupner, Pisendel, Fasch, Muffat, Tartini, Locatelli, Daquin, Sammartini, Quantz, Leclair, JG Graun, Hasse, KH Graun, Cannabich, Traetta, Nardini, Stamitz, Jomelli, Wagenseil, Mondonville, Krebs, Gluck, Boyce, Arne, Avison, Martini, Galuppi, Gossec...

There was also someone called Haydn doing some quite good stuff...

It is true, however, that JS Bach is in some way a summation of what has gone before; his offspring do wonderful things - I'm thinking of CPE, JC, WF, JCF - but they're very much plugged into the next wave which will lead to the classical movement...

[Pianorak]

I had hoped to learn something about the vast family of Bachs (what IS the collective noun?)

Bäche

[vinteuil]

... and let us not forget Geronimo Abos [Malta 1708 - Naples 1786]


"Geronimo Abos
Born at Malta about 1708, died at Naples about 1786, a composer of the Neapolitan school, and pupil of Leo and Durante. He was a teacher in the Conservatoro of La Pieta at Naples, and trained many eminent singers, of whom Aprile was the most famous. He visited Rome, Venice, Turin, and in 1756, London, where he held the post of maestro al cembalo at the opera. His operas are 'La Pupilla el'l Tutorie', 'La Serva Padrona', and 'L'Ifigenia in Aulide' (Naples), 'L'Artaserse' (Venice 1746), 'L'Adrano' (Rome 1750), 'Tito Manlio', and 'Creso (London 1756 and 1758). His church music is preserved in manuscript in Naples, Milan, Bologna, Rome, Vienna, Carlsruhe, and the Conservatoire in Paris. The style of his composition somewhat resembles that of Jommelli."

[Dave2002]

Thank you Eudaimonia, I find your reasoning pretty logical, though I am surprised that of the 100 or so thread starters, none should start something on Bach. I’ll take your advice and begin.

I confessed that my knowledge of his works is VERY limited, the odd Mass (can’t remember which one, the B min I think), Brandenburgs, Double Concerto, a few Cello Suites, THE Toccata, some Sonatas and Partitas and of course, Mein Jesu notwithstanding.

This is an honest question. What other great works should I consider? Whenever I read a review of a Bach cantata, it seems he wrote millions of the things!

But I’d prefer some large-scale beefy stuff. I’d welcome some suggestions please.

Thanks,

Mario

The St Matthew Passion is pretty massive, and you've already mentioned the B min Mass. The Christmas Oratorio is worth hearing too. Smaller scale works - the Italian Concerto, the violin sonatas (with keyboard) and some of the violin partitas, which, if not massive in sound are sometimes grand in scale. Then there's organ music ....

[LeMartinPecheur]

The St Matthew Passion is pretty massive, and you've already mentioned the B min Mass.

The Christmas Oratorio is worth hearing too.

It's surely very questionable whether the Christmas Oratorio counts as a 'massive' Bach work, or 'a work' at all. It is really 6 separate church cantatas that JSB never thought of performing together, intending them for two different churches on 6 different feast-days spread over 2 weeks! So it's probably the Easter Oratorio that comes next after the Passions and the B Minor Mass in the 'JSB Big Choral Blockbuster Stakes', since it is an artistic unity and lasts longer than most (all?) of the numbered church cantatas.

[Auferstehen2]

Again, grateful for your replies. OK, I’m convinced. The Masses and the Oratorios sound like a good idea.

For performance preferences, I would suspect that aficionados here would recommend Sir J E Gardiner maybe? I have seen Richter do a lot of Bach, but having once read a review about his performance of some work or other, which absolutely crucified him (!), I’m not so sure.

Should I go for JEG?

Mario

[doversoul1]

This might be worth checking.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio3/classical/cdreview/composer/johann-sebastian-bach/

[Auferstehen2]

Indeed it is doversoul! Thank you for the answer.

Mario

[Dave2002]

It's surely very questionable whether the Christmas Oratorio counts as a 'massive' Bach work, or 'a work' at all. It is really 6 separate church cantatas that JSB never thought of performing together, intending them for two different churches on 6 different feast-days spread over 2 weeks! So it's probably the Easter Oratorio that comes next after the Passions and the B Minor Mass in the 'JSB Big Choral Blockbuster Stakes', since it is an artistic unity and lasts longer than most (all?) of the numbered church cantatas.

Agreed about the Christmas Oratorio. I was trying to make it simple by choosing some easy to get into cantatas. There are many cantatas, and I'm not enamoured of all of them, though there are some real surprises. The one with the organ part which is very similar to one of the keyboard concertos really surprised me during the Bach fest on r3 a few years ago. JEG's recording of that one is very good.

[Dave2002]

I meant to give an alert about tonight's B minor Mass - could be worth listening. Should have just started.

[Auferstehen2]

Blast and curses! Missed it!

Mario