Is it age? - The Rite of Spring

[Bryn]

It is meant to be performed on stage.

The choreography is, but the music is the pit's. Stravinsky was all too happy to have Monteux rescue the composition by performing it in concert. Close to uniquely among conductors, Monteux has held in high regard by Stravinsky.

[teamsaint]

This particular piece , looked at in one way, carries particularly heavy, in fact uniquely heavy burdens of history, of personal musical development, of flag bearing for its century,and very much more.
It wasn't designed to bear all of that.

[Daniel]

A very interesting point indeed, Caliban, concerning a possible connection between the illustrative nature of the music, and a consequent shorter shelf-life (for some). Music that feels as if it doesn't have a subconscious life with which the listener can empathise?

I had a similar experience to some here with the Rite. I played it fairly obsessively in my teens, and by my mid twenties it seemed an almost empty vessel for me. As a result I've deliberately hardly listened to it in the last 25 years or so, hoping that a renaissance may occur through absence.
In my case it certainly seems a listener problem, not a musical one, I've never thought of it as anything less than one of the great pieces of music floating around in the canon. If I had ferney's ever fresh imagination, I may still be regularly high-kicking my way through its exhilarating byways, but I seemed to have burnt a fuse on one of my connecting cables in a period of over indulgence.
I listened to it again today (Abbado, LSO, DG) as a result of this thread though, and the cup certainly seemed less empty than last time I tried (5 years ago?), so hope springs eternal.

[ahinton]

A very interesting point indeed, Caliban, concerning a possible connection between the illustrative nature of the music, and a consequent shorter shelf-life (for some). Music that feels as if it doesn't have a subconscious life with which the listener can empathise?

I had a similar experience to some here with the Rite. I played it fairly obsessively in my teens, and by my mid twenties it seemed an almost empty vessel for me. As a result I've deliberately hardly listened to it in the last 25 years or so, hoping that a renaissance may occur through absence.
In my case it certainly seems a listener problem, not a musical one, I've never thought of it as anything less than one of the great pieces of music floating around in the canon. If I had ferney's ever fresh imagination, I may still be regularly high-kicking my way through its exhilarating byways, but I seemed to have burnt a fuse on one of my connecting cables in a period of over indulgence.
I listened to it again today (Abbado, LSO, DG) as a result of this thread though, and the cup certainly seemed less empty than last time I tried (5 years ago?)

Interesting responses!

so hope springs eternal.

Rite.

...(Sorry!)...

I wonder if the "problem" - to the extent that anyone might perceive there to be one (and, despite my reservations about much of Stravinsky, I've always greatly admired this piece) - could be that, despite all its orchestral virtuosity, subtle interplays of rawness and sophistication and expressive power, its undeniable visceral excitement just doesn't really have quite the substance of, say, Schönberg's first chamber symphony for far smaller forces or the same composer's Erwartung or Five Orchestral Pieces for larger ones (OK, why should it? - it's not Schönberg!). One thing that I find about it is that it yields most of its secrets on first or second listening whereas, say, Schönberg's D minor string quartet continues to reveal its with every listening, no matter how many there are; that's not intended to be a pejoriative criticism, because that's not what Le Sacre is about - but...

It's curious how the potent influence of Le Sacre makes its presence felt not only in such works as Varèse's Amériques from almost one decade later but also Birtwistle's Earth Dances from some seven decades later (and one of his best pieces, too, methinks).

[Oliver]

The recent recorded performances by period orchestras have made me listen with "clean" ears....but then I've always loved the piece, The best live performance I heard was at the Proms -Boulez with the BBCSO. The 70s , I think.

[Serial_Apologist]

This particular piece , looked at in one way, carries particularly heavy, in fact uniquely heavy burdens of history, of personal musical development, of flag bearing for its century,and very much more.
It wasn't designed to bear all of that.

Ooh, unless you're speaking of yourself, I dunno about that, teamy. My feeling is that Stravinsky knew what The Rite would count for - if not as "the vessel" at the time, through whom he described the work as passing, but certainly in its wake.

[Serial_Apologist]

The choreography is, but the music is the pit's.

But then I spotted your apostrophe!

[Serial_Apologist]

A very interesting point indeed, Caliban, concerning a possible connection between the illustrative nature of the music, and a consequent shorter shelf-life (for some). Music that feels as if it doesn't have a subconscious life with which the listener can empathise?

This and Caliban's earlier comments on lasting qualities in non-illustrative musics versus illustrative are among the profoundest and most intriguing I have encountered since joining this forum. I think there's a lot to be said for them; I would however distinguish as far as my own experience goes between music illustrative on on-stage action, eg ballet, and that which depicts nature and landscape, given that one's feelings towards the latter likewise are reflected through experience and age similarly to how they are towards musics one has known throughout ones life.

[Serial_Apologist]

It's curious how the potent influence of Le Sacre makes its presence felt not only in such works as Varèse's Amériques from almost one decade later but also Birtwistle's Earth Dances from some seven decades later (and one of his best pieces, too, methinks).

But less on his own subsequent music, as I pointed out in an earlier posting, (the Symphony in 3 Movements being the obvious exception), so that one has to listen out for teasing references to its idiom, as for example in the gathering rush at the end of the Violin Concerto.

[subcontrabass]

The best live performance I heard was at the Proms -Boulez with the BBCSO. The 70s , I think.

I will echo that combination. I heard them at a Prom in, I think, the late 1960s. Totally electrifying performance. The BBCSO were then one of the few orchestras that had really mastered the work. It was also fascinating to watch Boulez's conducting technique (and to see him conducting this work from memory).

[rauschwerk]

In the 1960s, as I recall, three conductors in turn were regarded as achieving ne plus ultra in this piece: Colin Davis, Dorati and Boulez. I heard all three. Davis excited me the most because his was the first live performance I heard. Until then I knew only the rather tame 1960 version conducted by the composer.

Inspired by this thread, I picked out Philadelphia/Muti and gave it a spin. It certainly raised ample goosebumps (probably more than the Schoenberg pieces mentioned above) but maybe I shan't go out of my way to hear it too often lest it lose its appeal for me.

[DublinJimbo]

I go along with previous references to period-instrument performances/recordings. Most recently, I've just listened to the new recording from Teodor Currentzis and MusicAeterna. Stunning!

[pastoralguy]

Inspired by this thread, I picked out Philadelphia/Muti and gave it a spin. It certainly raised ample goosebumps (probably more than the Schoenberg pieces mentioned above) but maybe I shan't go out of my way to hear it too often lest it lose its appeal for me.

Le Sacre is one of my all time favourite works and Muti's is my favourite recording! Absolutely stunning.

[pastoralguy]

I go along with previous references to period-instrument performances/recordings. Most recently, I've just listened to the new recording from Teodor Currentzis and MusicAeterna. Stunning!

I hardly need another recording of Le Sacre but I'm very tempted by this one. Decisions, decisions...

[Barbirollians]

I think it is Mr Wigglesworth's interpretation was the reason I started this thread - listened to the NYPO/Bernstein tonight after deciding that perhaps listening to a fresh version would be a good idea .

Lenny and his crack orchestra wind things up properly - particularly fine woodwind ,brass and timpani .No wonder Igor was reported to have exclaimed Wow