Is it age? - The Rite of Spring

[Barbirollians]

Last night I went to see the Halle conducted by Ryan Wigglesworth . It was a notable concert seeing Marc Andre Hamelin play the Turnage Piano Concerto a short piece modelled it seemed to me on the Ravel . The jazz influences also were somewhat reminiscent too . The first movement rather busy , the second a lullaby for Hans Werner Henze was the highlight and the finale seemed in its grotesque burlesque as it is titled to miss one thing in particular - a tune or a memorable theme .

Hamelin did not look at all like his appearance on CD covers and indeed letting his greying grow longer at the back had an uncanny resemblance to Joseph Cooper !

He played superbly .

That was not however really the point of this post . In the second half with terrific virtuosity that would I imagine Barbirolli would have loved to have had at its disposal they played The Rite of Spring . Yet I found myself almost utterly unmoved by it , Wigglesworth seemed to create little tension .

I wondered whether it was age . I have probably not listened to the work on CD for a while and perhaps music like the Rite seems a lot less exciting when you are approaching 50 than 20 .

The last time I heard the piece in the City Hall was probably one of the three best concerts I have ever been to - December 1987 CBSO/Rattle - a performance that created extraordinary tension that his excellent recording did not quite match and unlike yesterday's polite applause brought the house down .

[Beef Oven!]

Last night I went to see the Halle conducted by Ryan Wigglesworth . It was a notable concert seeing Marc Andre Hamelin play the Turnage Piano Concerto a short piece modelled it seemed to me on the Ravel . The jazz influences also were somewhat reminiscent too . The first movement rather busy , the second a lullaby for Hans Werner Henze was the highlight and the finale seemed in its grotesque burlesque as it is titled to miss one thing in particular - a tune or a memorable theme .

Hamelin did not look at all like his appearance on CD covers and indeed letting his greying grow longer at the back had an uncanny resemblance to Joseph Cooper !

He played superbly .

That was not however really the point of this post . In the second half with terrific virtuosity that would I imagine Barbirolli would have loved to have had at its disposal they played The Rite of Spring . Yet I found myself almost utterly unmoved by it , Wigglesworth seemed to create little tension .

I wondered whether it was age . I have probably not listened to the work on CD for a while and perhaps music like the Rite seems a lot less exciting when you are approaching 50 than 20 .

The last time I heard the piece in the City Hall was probably one of the three best concerts I have ever been to - December 1987 CBSO/Rattle - a performance that created extraordinary tension that his excellent recording did not quite match and unlike yesterday's polite applause brought the house down .

Can't be age. You say you were a toddler when Barbirolli died, which would make you around 46/47 (?). That's too young to be talking like that.

[Quarky]

No, not age - the mind doesn't get old, although the body does, unfortunately (I assume you weren't physically participating in any rite?).

Other factors must have been at work.

[Beef Oven!]

No, not age - the mind doesn't get old, although the body does, unfortunately (I assume you weren't physically participating in any rite?).

Other factors must have been at work.

On the other hand, it could be relative to how old one's mind is, to begin with - I know a few people of Barbirollians' age who are rather curmudgeonly!

[Mary Chambers]

I've never found it 'exciting', just violent. I never liked it much, and now in my old age (70s) I positively loathe it, and avoid it at all costs. I wonder if it could be partly a gender thing? Do men find it more exciting than women do?

[Barbirollians]

I've never found it 'exciting', just violent. I never liked it much, and now in my old age (70s) I positively loathe it, and avoid it at all costs. I wonder if it could be partly a gender thing? Do men find it more exciting than women do?

I used to love it but last night it was just like watching and listening to a loud machine going through the motions .

I must dig out one or two of my favourite recordings Dorati and Markevifch perhaps and see if the performance was the problem .

I wasn't very taken with the opening Haffner symphony either - middle movements too slow finale too fast for my liking .

[Petrushka]

There was a time - and not that long ago either - when the Rite of Spring was a fearsome test for even the most virtuosic of orchestras. Nowadays any band seems to be able to play it in their sleep and over-exposure together with audience familiarity are real problems.

The first recording I bought (and the first time I heard the piece) was the Chicago Symphony and Solti back in 1975 (I was 21) and it blew my mind. I've attended many performances over the years, got loads of recordings and still get a real thrill out of it. The other night I heard Karajan and the BPO in a live Lucerne performance from 1978 and just a few nights previously a somewhat eccentric performance from the LSO and Gergiev (on R3) had a final chord that was utterly vicious.

So no, I'm not tired of the piece just yet. And by the way, the most boring live performance I've attended was LSO/Markevich back in about 1979. True, he was an old man by then but really...

[Pulcinella]

I suspect that orchestral vituosity and audience familiarity both play their part.
I remember reading a suggestion that the piece should be shifted up (a semitone?) to make the players (especially the poor person kicking the proceedings off: apologies to those who hate the phrase, ha ha!) and audience sit on the edges of their seats again.

[Mary Chambers]

I think many people forget it started life as a ballet, choreographed by Nijinsky. It is meant to be performed on stage. I saw Kenneth MacMillan's version of it in the 1960s, but all I really remember is the incredible stamina of Monica Mason as the Chosen One. I remained, and remain, unmoved by what have been described as 'the erotic elements of virgin sacrifice'.

[Beef Oven!]

I think many people forget it started life as a ballet, choreographed by Nijinsky.

This is never lost on me and I can't imagine listening to it without thinking about the implied or actual dancing and movement. IMV, it's essential.
I always find it an exciting piece to listen to at home or in the concert hall.

[richardfinegold]

There was a time - and not that long ago either - when the Rite of Spring was a fearsome test for even the most virtuosic of orchestras. Nowadays any band seems to be able to play it in their sleep and over-exposure together with audience familiarity are real problems.

The first recording I bought (and the first time I heard the piece) was the Chicago Symphony and Solti back in 1975 (I was 21) and it blew my mind. I've attended many performances over the years, got loads of recordings and still get a real thrill out of it. The other night I heard Karajan and the BPO in a live Lucerne performance from 1978 and just a few nights previously a somewhat eccentric performance from the LSO and Gergiev (on R3) had a final chord that was utterly vicious.

So no, I'm not tired of the piece just yet. And by the way, the most boring live performance I've attended was LSO/Markevich back in about 1979. True, he was an old man by then but really...

That CSO version was pretty visceral. I worked in a record shop back then and we were playing it and I remember the manager saying "It is bad enough that they kill her at the end. Do they have to pound her to death with the tubas?"
There were a bunch of radio broadcasts and Orchestral performances of the Rite 2 years ago to mark it's centenary.
I listened to most of them with ennui. It's capacity to shock decreases with over familiarity.

[gradus]

I like it and there was a very exciting performance rerviewed on this morning's BAL. Klemperer thought it wouldn't stay the course when interviewed on Face to Face but he has yet to be proved right.

[Richard Tarleton]

I think many people forget it started life as a ballet, choreographed by Nijinsky. It is meant to be performed on stage. I saw Kenneth MacMillan's version of it in the 1960s, but all I really remember is the incredible stamina of Monica Mason as the Chosen One.

Indeed. The only time I've seen/heard it performed was that very production, at the ROH, in 1972. By then it was the spectacularly tall (for a ballerina) Deanne Bergsma. I tried and failed to get a ticket for Karajan/BPO in the RFH that year. Nowadays I too dislike it profoundly. I've developed an allergy to Stravinsky generally, I'm afraid. Something to do with emotional wavelength I think, I just don't get him.

[Simon B]

I'm probably just regurgitating my own response having considered a similar question a few years ago (in case this comes across as rather imperious) - but, to the thread title question, no, probably not, at least not on this evidence.

Isn't it quite likely you've pinpointed the problem already?

Yet I found myself almost utterly unmoved by it , Wigglesworth seemed to create little tension .

unlike yesterday's polite applause brought the house down .

I should admit to a prejudice: In terms of what I personally look for in a Rite, it isn't the Hallé's thing IMO (now superb in some repertoire, e.g. the Elgar/Wagner/Sibelius/RVW axis, but often disappoints in anything edgy/percussive/violent/abrasive for reasons of style regardless of having the virtuosity to play all the notes). Likewise, previous encounters with Ryan Wigglesworth have left me with the impression that he sometimes conducts standard rep in similar manner to other conductors noted for a specialism in technically complex and challenging contemporary music. Clear, confident, precise and lacking that indefinable something.

These sweeping generalisations are just a long winded way of saying my prime suspect would be the performance.

The Vienna Philharmonic played the Rite at the Proms a few years ago (c Zubin Mehta?) - with customary virtuosity in terms of getting the notes and rhythms right. It must have been the most boring performance of it in history.

In the anniversary year, I recall going to 4 (possibly more) live Rites. I was actively bored by one, one was ok (BBCPO/Mena), one pretty good (CBSO/Nelsons) and one (RLPO/Petrenko) as thrilling as anything in any of the many concerts I'd been to in years and corrected my suspicion that I too had grown out of the Rite. Beyond hard-edged visceral attack and extreme dynamic swings from the timps/percussion/brass it's hard to articulate what set this one apart. It was that ill-defined quality - edge-of-your-seat tension - the creation of which largely remains a mystery.

[Roehre]

There was a time - and not that long ago either - when the Rite of Spring was a fearsome test for even the most virtuosic of orchestras. Nowadays any band seems to be able to play it in their sleep and over-exposure together with audience familiarity are real problems. .....

The same applies to the Mahler symphonies, btw.
Over-exposition diminishes one's surprise and appreciation of the power and the originality of a piece eventually.