FNiMN

[vinteuil]

Maybe one needs to hear it in a 'great' (whatever that means) performance. It didn't mean much to me until I heard Beecham and Toscanini (respectively) conduct it. Now I find it hard to disagree with those wo call it 'the greatest (whatever that means) piece of music ever written. '

... sounds like special pleading to me

[smittims]

No, no, I never plead. You are welcome to go through life without hearing it again. My remark was intended generally. I always say to someone who expresses dislike of a piece or a composer 'in that case I advise you to avoid it at all costs.' In advertising that is known as the 'soft sell' : 'Please ignore this advert; Our product isn't for you'.

[vinteuil]

No, no, I never plead. You are welcome to go through life without hearing it again. My remark was intended generally. I always say to someone who expresses dislike of a piece or a composer 'in that case I advise you to avoid it at all costs.' In advertising that is known as the 'soft sell' : 'Please ignore this advert; Our product isn't for you'.

... but you are making a claim - that you can 'only' really appreciate it having heard a 'great' performance. That is special pleading

.

[LMcD]

No Friday Night is Music Night tonight......not even Good Friday Night is Music Night! Schumann's Manfred and Brahms' Requiem, advertised as Easter: A Seasonal Journey. What will FNiMN regulars make it, I wonder? Perhaps expecting Irving Berlin's Easter Parade, fooled by the 'A Seasonal Journey'

I'm not sure what picture you have in your mind of a 'FNiMN regular'. I've not only heard of Brahms's German Requiem, but also have a recording of it, to which I've listened more than once - oh yes, and I actually attended a performance, conducted by David Oistrakh, in Moscow in the late 1960s.

[Pulcinella]

... but you are making a claim - that you can 'only' really appreciate it having heard a 'great' performance. That is special pleading

.

He did say Maybe.

[Roger Webb]

I'm not sure what picture you have in your mind of a 'FNiMN regular'. I've not only heard of Brahms's German Requiem, but also have a recording of it, to which I've listened more than once - oh yes, and I actually attended a performance, conducted by David Oistrakh, in Moscow in the late 1960s.

You're right in the implication that there is not a typical 'FNiMN regular', and I apologise if If I've pigeonholed any as such - I'm sure you're as atypical as the next Forum member!

Many of my customers in my specialist classical CD shop were amazed that I would admit to being a Genesis fan (the early stuff, that is...played in the privacy of my own home amongst consenting adults!), I used to explain that before I ran the shop I worked in the music business as an electronics technician, including in a recording studio now famous for recording Punk and Trip-Hop bands - I would never have admitted to them I was a Genesis fan...their derision would have been unendurable! I think most classical music fans are more accepting of other genres generally.......except Country and Western, of course!!!

[Ein Heldenleben]

I'm not sure what picture you have in your mind of a 'FNiMN regular'. I've not only heard of Brahms's German Requiem, but also have a recording of it, to which I've listened more than once - oh yes, and I actually attended a performance, conducted by David Oistrakh, in Moscow in the late 1960s.

Given that the BBC Concert Orchestra, the ultimate FNIMN regulars , are performing tonight’s German Requiem your point seems to be well made.

[french frank]

I'm not sure what picture you have in your mind of a 'FNiMN regular'. I've not only heard of Brahms's German Requiem, but also have a recording of it

But are you a typical FNiMN regular? Did you listen to it regularly, for instance, when it was on R2? Are you, in fact, a typical Radio 3 listener? So much to weigh up ...

[Ein Heldenleben]

Enjoying the Requiem “take” on FNIMN - some lovely choral singing from the Philharmonia Chorus.

[LMcD]

But are you a typical FNiMN regular? Did you listen to it regularly, for instance, when it was on R2? Are you, in fact, a typical Radio 3 listener? So much to weigh up ...

I did listen it to it regularly before it migrated to Radio 3. Did that make me a typical Radio 2 listener, I wonder?
As I don't really know what a typical Radio 3 listener is, I'm afraid I can't answer your third question.

[french frank]

I did listen it to it regularly before it migrated to Radio 3. Did that make me a typical Radio 2 listener, I wonder?
As I don't really know what a typical Radio 3 listener is, I'm afraid I can't answer your third question.

I was just responding to your own uncertainty as to what a typical 'FNiMN regular' might be. It would be statistically possible to discover whether your familiarity with the German Requiem placed you among the majority of regular FNiMN listeners or the minority, but I don't suppose anyone is likely to commission YouGov or Ipsos Mori to find out. But my own feeling (without any evidence to support it) is that the German Requiem wwould not have been included in the programme had it still been on Radio 2.

[oddoneout]

I was just responding to your own uncertainty as to what a typical 'FNiMN regular' might be. It would be statistically possible to discover whether your familiarity with the German Requiem placed you among the majority of regular FNiMN listeners or the minority, but I don't suppose anyone is likely to commission YouGov or Ipsos Mori to find out. But my own feeling (without any evidence to support it) is that the German Requiem wwould not have been included in the programme had it still been on Radio 2.

I agree that the German Requiem wouldn't have appeared in the original R2(and precursor) FNIMN( it wouldn't have needed to) but I think there would have been an overlap between 'typical listeners' and those who knew the Brahms - possibly through singing it in a choral society. That was certainly my experience listening to my mother's friends, my own listening many years later and, coming to current times, I would think from the number of choir members(amateur choral society I sing with) who say they listen to CFM that there is probably still the same overlap between those who perform the 'heavy' repertoire, but at leisure choose the lighter stuff for listening.

[LMcD]

I was just responding to your own uncertainty as to what a typical 'FNiMN regular' might be. It would be statistically possible to discover whether your familiarity with the German Requiem placed you among the majority of regular FNiMN listeners or the minority, but I don't suppose anyone is likely to commission YouGov or Ipsos Mori to find out. But my own feeling (without any evidence to support it) is that the German Requiem wwould not have been included in the programme had it still been on Radio 2.

It's not likely that a significant proportion of listeners who used to enjoy FNiMN on Radio 2 would be familiar with the German Requiem, and we shall never know what the reaction would have been to its inclusion. However, some assumptions are more justified than others. I understand that it was widely assumed at ITV HQ that few of their regular viewers would want to watch a drama about the Horizon software scandal, and BBC HQ probably didn't expect Mastermind to attract a mass audience when it had to be rescheduled as a consequence of industrial action.

[french frank]

I think there would have been an overlap between 'typical listeners' and those who knew the Brahms

Possibly you can only describe a 'typical listener' if there is only one listener (if they could be considered a 'type' on their own). Generalisations, though, have their value and there is little point in objecting to them on the grounds that 'it isn't true in my case'. My surmise would be that only a minority of those who listened to R2's FNiMN would have been familiar with the Brahms (or even with Brahms), though the percentage probably increased when the programme transferred to R3. It's still all about R3's managerial audience manipulation. They value any listener who will listen to FNiMN much more highly than an R3 regular who finds it unappealing.

[LMcD]

Possibly you can only describe a 'typical listener' if there is only one listener (if they could be considered a 'type' on their own). Generalisations, though, have their value and there is little point in objecting to them on the grounds that 'it isn't true in my case'. My surmise would be that only a minority of those who listened to R2's FNiMN would have been familiar with the Brahms (or even with Brahms), though the percentage probably increased when the programme transferred to R3. It's still all about R3's managerial audience manipulation. They value any listener who will listen to FNiMN much more highly than an R3 regular who finds it unappealing.

It's nice to know that I'm appreciated!