FNiMN

[Roger Webb]

I certainly think Montague Phillips, William Alwyn and Eric Coates............ have a rightful place on R3

Why is there even a question as to whether William Alwyn should be played on Radio 3?!

Like many composers of film music - most obviously Vaughan Williams and William Walton - Alwyn wrote 'serious' music too: operas, piano concertos, symphonies (5), tone-poems, string quartets, sonatas and much other chamber music...particularly for flute - he was one of the best flautists in London before concentrating on composition. To fund his 'serious' works he needed an income (and to fund his purchase of Pre-Raphaelite paintings) so he turned to film.

BTW, he was a fluent French speaker and made many translations of the French poets (might even prick Vinteuil's interest, if not his music).....and still had time to paint some accomplished canvases in a Fauvist manner (see covers of the Chandos recordings)

It might be instructive to read his autobiography 'Composing in words: William Alwyn on his art' (Toccata).....then we may be able to make a judgement about which of his works might be suitable for airing on Radio 3 - I've tried for years to have some of his played, with very little success.

Sir John Barbirolli commissioned and/or gave the 1st perf. of several of his symphonies.....surely they deserve to be heard, and where if not Radio 3?

[oddoneout]

Rather than worrying about what current Radio 3 listeners might prefer, perhaps young Jackson is more concerned with trying to work out what might be to the taste of possible future Radio 3 listeners.

Which of course he should be. The difficulty is that I suspect his approach is based on what he thinks/knows/likes first and foremost, rather than the wider issues, such as the majority of the public growing up without any notion of what "classical" music is about, far more so now than used to be decades ago when music (and other arts) was considered a part of education and the school curriculum, and participating in same was available to many more pupils not just those at fee-paying schools, and the implications and knock-on effects of that. The Arts Council's actions continue to add to that lack of exposure and access by removing the ability of performing groups to do outreach in schools etc. There has always been that barrier, but my feeling is that it is bigger now than before, with the blanket promotion across all platforms of "pop" music.
There will always be those who encounter the alternatives by accident and (one hopes) music students - whether and to what extent R3 in future can capture, maintain and develop that interest on the current trajectory I don't know - I have my doubts. In the meantime I still think it is foolish to lose the existing audience by blanket chat'n'bits programming. It suggests to me either lack of knowledge or disregard, neither of which is desirable. There should be room for both - in the same way that libraries may focus on fiction and lighter reading but will still offer(assuming funds permit them to continue to exist in the first place...) a meatier option, even if not as much so as in previous times, in the same space.

[antongould]

Will/do R2 listeners cross the great divide to access R3?

well I did, which probably proves it’s not worth the effort ……

[Andrew Slater]

Why is there even a question as to whether William Alwyn should be played on Radio 3?!

Like many composers of film music - most obviously Vaughan Williams and William Walton - Alwyn wrote 'serious' music too: operas, piano concertos, symphonies (5), tone-poems, string quartets, sonatas and much other chamber music...particularly for flute - he was one of the best flautists in London before concentrating on composition. To fund his 'serious' works he needed an income (and to fund his purchase of Pre-Raphaelite paintings) so he turned to film.

BTW, he was a fluent French speaker and made many translations of the French poets (might even prick Vinteuil's interest, if not his music).....and still had time to paint some accomplished canvases in a Fauvist manner (see covers of the Chandos recordings)

It might be instructive to read his autobiography 'Composing in words: William Alwyn on his art' (Toccata).....then we may be able to make a judgement about which of his works might be suitable for airing on Radio 3 - I've tried for years to have some of his played, with very little success.

Sir John Barbirolli commissioned and/or gave the 1st perf. of several of his symphonies.....surely they deserve to be heard, and where if not Radio 3?

I agree - he doesn't appear to be being taken very seriously by the BBC any more. It seems he was last Composer of the Week in his own right in 2008 (repeated, I think, from 2005). The last time he appears in CotW is 2013 when he was bundled in with RVW and Easdale in one day of a week of various film composers.

Oh for the days when things were taken seriously: I've just found a whole series of afternoon programmes in 1978, devoted to the symphonies:

https://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/search/0/20?q=symphonies+of+william+alwyn#top

[LMcD]

Why is there even a question as to whether William Alwyn should be played on Radio 3?!

Like many composers of film music - most obviously Vaughan Williams and William Walton - Alwyn wrote 'serious' music too: operas, piano concertos, symphonies (5), tone-poems, string quartets, sonatas and much other chamber music...particularly for flute - he was one of the best flautists in London before concentrating on composition. To fund his 'serious' works he needed an income (and to fund his purchase of Pre-Raphaelite paintings) so he turned to film.

BTW, he was a fluent French speaker and made many translations of the French poets (might even prick Vinteuil's interest, if not his music).....and still had time to paint some accomplished canvases in a Fauvist manner (see covers of the Chandos recordings)

It might be instructive to read his autobiography 'Composing in words: William Alwyn on his art' (Toccata).....then we may be able to make a judgement about which of his works might be suitable for airing on Radio 3 - I've tried for years to have some of his played, with very little success.

Sir John Barbirolli commissioned and/or gave the 1st perf. of several of his symphonies.....surely they deserve to be heard, and where if not Radio 3?

I have many CDs of British music which arguably deserves to be heard more often on Radio 3. In addition to many of Alwyn's works, I regularly listen to pieces by Bliss, Hoddinott, Ireland, Mathias, Rawsthorne and others - not necessarily 'great' music, but some it very fine (Ireland's chamber works, for example). I believe that these pieces are deserving of air time if only because people who may be unaware of them would then at least have an opportunity to judge - and hopefully enjoy - them. There are a couple of examples of works by American composers which have recently - and deservedly- been heard more frequently, namely the Barber and Korngold violin concertos.

[oddoneout]

well I did, which probably proves it’s not worth the effort ……

That was a few years ago I'm assuming? Would you make the change now?

[french frank]

That was a few years ago I'm assuming? Would you make the change now?

Additionally, how far was the move prompted by changes to R2?

[Roger Webb]

I have many CDs of British music which arguably deserves to be heard more often on Radio 3. In additrion to many of Alwyn's works, I regularly listen to pieces by Bliss, Hoddinott, Ireland, Mathias, Rawsthorne and others - not necessarily 'great' music, but some it very fine (Ireland's chamber works, for example). I believe that these pieces are deserving of air time if only because people who may be unaware of them would then at least have an opportunity to judge - and hopefully enjoy - them. There are a couple of examples of works by American composers which have recently - and deservedly- been heard more frequently, namely the Barber and Korngold violin concertos.

Having recently been trawling through my nearly hundred Lyrita LPs, I've of course played all the above you mention, and more!

The Barber and Korngold are done often compared to, say, the Moeran and Bax violin concertos....not to mention the Delius! In fact you could say Korngold is a bit of a darling of presenters like GM, particularly the film music, which is pretty standard stuff.....and attached to some pretty naff films!!........but I wouldn't ban him from Radio 3 because he also wrote in a popular vein - nor Elgar, nor Sibelius, come to that!

[LMcD]

Having recently been trawling through my nearly hundred Lyrita LPs, I've of course played all the above you mention, and more!

The Barber and Korngold are done often compared to, say, the Moeran and Bax violin concertos....not to mention the Delius! In fact you could say Korngold is a bit of a darling of presenters like GM, particularly the film music, which is pretty standard stuff.....and attached to some pretty naff films!!........but I wouldn't ban him from Radio 3 because he also wrote in a popular vein - nor Elgar, nor Sibelius, come to that!

I didn't want to bore everybody with the whole of my long list of criminally ignored composers, but perhaps I should have mentioned Moeran, whose large- and scale-works I find equally satisfying and enjoyable and play regularly.
If every composer who also wrote in a popular vein was banned, there would be some 'big names' for the chop, including Walton and Britten, to name but two.

[Roger Webb]

I agree - he doesn't appear to be being taken very seriously by the BBC any more. It seems he was last Composer of the Week in his own right in 2008 (repeated, I think, from 2005). The last time he appears in CotW is 2013 when he was bundled in with RVW and Easdale in one day of a week of various film composers.

Oh for the days when things were taken seriously: I've just found a whole series of afternoon programmes in 1978, devoted to the symphonies:

https://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/search/0...liam+alwyn#top

Thank you Andrew, that's interesting.

I remember the CotW in his own right and the film one. His wife Mary (AKA Doreen Carwithen) now played to death on Radio 3, has been done more recently....I've just been reading her essays on William Alwyn's five symphonies, well written and to the point.

We here in the Wye Valley think that No. 5 'Hydriotaphia' is named after Welsh Water!

[LMcD]

Thank you Andrew, that's interesting.

I remember the CotW in his own right and the film one. His wife Mary (AKA Doreen Carwithen) now played to death on Radio 3, has been done more recently....I've just been reading her essays on William Alwyn's five symphonies, well written and to the point.

We here in the Wye Valley think that No. 5 'Hydriotaphia' is named after Welsh Water!

I think Doreen Carwithen is one of those female composers who are now receiving a kind of on-air apology for the neglect and lack of recognition from which they suffered for so long.

[Andrew Slater]

I think Doreen Carwithen is one of those female composers who are now receiving a kind of on-air apology for the neglect and lack of recognition from which they suffered for so long.

Carwithen's Suffolk Suite was played at last weekend's English Music Festival. Curiously, the third movement, entitled Suffolk Morris, sounded more like an Irish jig (to me and at least one other). It's available on CD but this performance should appear sometime on R3, as it was played by the BBC Concert Orchestra, and the concert was recorded.

[Roger Webb]

I think Doreen Carwithen is one of those female composers who are now receiving a kind of on-air apology for the neglect and lack of recognition from which they suffered for so long.

Yes, some others that fall into this category have already been mentioned elsewhere - must be careful, last time I mentioned that I thought William a superior composer to Mary, I was told the comment was sexist! I said it then to counteract the nonsense that was perpetrated in CotW that '......some people are starting to think Doreen Carwithen a better composer than her husband'. I pointed out that only those not conversant with William's music could think such an idiotic thing!

[Roger Webb]

Carwithen's Suffolk Suite was played at last weekend's English Music Festival. Curiously, the third movement, entitled Suffolk Morris, sounded more like an Irish jig (to me and at least one other). It's available on CD but this performance should appear sometime on R3, as it was played by the BBC Concert Orchestra, and the concert was recorded.

Yes, the Suffolk Suite is the go-to piece, in the same way that Grace Williams' Sea Sketches is when the BBC play either. Agree about the Suffolk Morris movt.....perhaps she could have followed Grainger's lead and called it 'Mock Morris'!

[antongould]

That was a few years ago I'm assuming? Would you make the change now?

Yes about 14 I think, and yes I would ……. although in that period, IMVVHO, R2 has changed more than R3 ……..