FNiMN

[LMcD]

Or maybe a medley of the Tornados’ hits!

I suspect that any proposal to include Japanese fighter aircraft would attract Zero support.

[Ein Heldenleben]

No Spitfires , Tornadoes or Hurricanes at this FNIMN VE Day Concert. But it does have the very considerable bonus of the Central band of the RAF. Heard them once , bizarrely in a riverside park at Saltash , and they are excellent.

The Concert blurb :

“As BBC Radio 3 celebrates the 80th anniversary of VE Day, join the BBC Concert Orchestra and the Central Band of the Royal Air Force for this stirring, swinging salute to our greatest generation.

In May 1945 silence fell across Europe – and for a few unforgettable days, a continent danced in the streets. Eighty years on, as we remember that world-changing moment, the BBC Concert Orchestra joins forces with the Central Band of the Royal Air Force for a very special Friday Night is Music Night. As always, it’s an evening packed with tunes you know and love. Richard Balcombe conducts movie melodies guaranteed to conjure memories – including The Dam Busters and 633 Squadron. There’ll be pageantry, marches and a spectacular showpiece that brings together the full symphonic forces of the BBC CO with the musical aces of the RAF.

And of course, we’ll be kicking up our heels and dancing, as the Central Band of the Royal Air Force celebrates the songs that saw a nation through, including A Nightingale Sang in Berkeley Square and I’ll be Seeing You, and salutes the music of Glenn Miller – all with that irresistible swing.”

[french frank]

If I 'ruled the world' Radio 2 would be the home of all the musics between Classical and pop:
Jazz, folk, traditional music from the third world, brass bands, fairground organs, bell-ringing, musical boxes, male-voice choirs, Broadway 'musicals', and popular film music. If this happened all these musics would get much more air time than they've ever had from the BBC.

One crumb for each. And what audience would Radio 2 appeal to? If it were to happen, classical music would be included as a niche music and R3's vacated airspace would be occupied by yet another popular music station for, by then, superseded styles such as punk, techno, house, acid house, heavy metal, thrash metal, R&B, hiphop, triphop, dub, ska, garage, grunge, grime, goth ....

[Roger Webb]

................. But it does have the very considerable bonus of the Central band of the RAF. Heard them once , bizarrely in a riverside park at Saltash , and they are excellent.

Yes they have excellent musicians in the RAF band...two previous members of its french horn section during the period being celebrated by this concert were Dennis Brain and Norman del Mar.

As far as celebrating the famous 'Dams Raid', an American Airforce Base once put on a dinner to mark one of its anniversaries and had the place mats specially printed with the insignia of 617 Squadron, underneath which was emblazoned 'The Damn Busters'.

[smittims]

No, no, ff, about one hour each per day (though I admit an hour a day of fairground organs would be a bit much; an hour a week, perhaps , for the lesser of those musics, but two or three hours a day for Jazz and folk (some of it hopefully live) , leaving Radio 3 free for classical, drama, discussions , poetry and talks (especially on subjects neglected by broadcasting, such as physics).

[vinteuil]

It would, IMHO, not be wise to describe Radio 3 as 'The Home Of Serious (or Classical) Music' until and unless we can come up with a widely acceptable and meaningful definition of what that means.

... for me, it's quite simple. Radio 3 should be the home of Difficult Music - whether ars subtilior or Brian Ferneyhough. Therefore Morton Lauridsen and Karl Jenkins &c banned, and anything 'immersive' equally tabu

[LMcD]

No, no, ff, about one hour each per day (though I admit an hour a day of fairground organs would be a bit much; an hour a week, perhaps , for the lesser of those musics, but two or three hours a day for Jazz and folk (some of it hopefully live) , leaving Radio 3 free for classical, drama, discussions , poetry and talks (especially on subjects neglected by broadcasting, such as physics).

Perhaps organ music should be shown exclusively on Grindr.
I think I would find it difficult to remain a Friend of a Radio 3 that insisted on being difficult, but I dare say it would survive without me.

[french frank]

Bit out of touch as have been busy with lunch and decided on rice pudding for dessert which has just gone in the oven.

No, no, ff, about one hour each per day (though I admit an hour a day of fairground organs would be a bit much; an hour a week, perhaps , for the lesser of those musics, but two or three hours a day for Jazz and folk (some of it hopefully live) ...

I'm more of a pragmatist than a daydreamer! Where were you proposing to broadcast what currently fills R2's airtime - given that R2's current output is apparently satisfying the largest UK radio audience by a considerable margin?

... leaving Radio 3 free for classical, drama, discussions , poetry and talks (especially on subjects neglected by broadcasting, such as physics).

Costed schedule? R3 is already deemed to be too expensive for the BBC to afford and must cuts costs. I would propose a reduction in weekly broadcast hours to:

TTN - nightly, accessible to most listeners via Sounds, 42 hours.
1 classic drama per week - 3 hours
7 lunchtime recitals - 7 hours
7 evening concerts, live or 'as live' - 14 hours
1 discussion programme à la Critics Forum/Brains Trust - 1 hour
1 talk - 1 hour
1 poetry/literary programme - 1 hour.

That would be the basic "R3 culture", but also

jazz according to Serial/ Ian Thumwood - 3-4 hours
world music - according to me (traditional/classical) 2 hours

Fit those into an accessible broadcasting schedule (given the existence of Sounds for time shifted listening).

Remove all the rest of the airwave-polluting easy listening for SILENCE so that R3 listeners can listen via Sounds without feeling they're missing anything currently going out. If the dross is really missed by a substantial number, as at today (13 Feb 2025), move it over to R3 Unwind.

[french frank]

Forgot general music discussion like RR and EMS

[LMcD]

Bit out of touch as have been busy with lunch and decided on rice pudding for dessert which has just gone in the oven.


I'm more of a pragmatist than a daydreamer! Where were you proposing to broadcast what currently fills R2's airtime - given that R2's current output is apparently satisfying the largest UK radio audience by a considerable margin?



Costed schedule? R3 is already deemed to be too expensive for the BBC to afford and must cuts costs. I would propose a reduction in weekly broadcast hours to:

TTN - nightly, accessible to most listeners via Sounds, 42 hours.
1 classic drama per week - 3 hours
7 lunchtime recitals - 7 hours
7 evening concerts, live or 'as live' - 14 hours
1 discussion programme à la Critics Forum/Brains Trust - 1 hour
1 talk - 1 hour
1 poetry/literary programme - 1 hour.

That would be the basic "R3 culture", but also

jazz according to Serial/ Ian Thumwood - 3-4 hours
world music - according to me (traditional/classical) 2 hours

Fit those into an accessible broadcasting schedule (given the existence of Sounds for time shifted listening).

Remove all the rest of the airwave-polluting easy listening for SILENCE so that R3 listeners can listen via Sounds without feeling they're missing anything currently going out. If the dross is really missed by a substantial number, as at today (13 Feb 2025), move it over to R3 Unwind.

Wot no Private Passions?

As wind-ups go, I must admit that this one really is pretty impressive.

However, to be on the safe side, perhaps I really should try to stop trying to pretend that I know anything at all about anything that's at all worth listening to. If I want the Sounds of Silence, I suppose I could always put on my Simon and Garfunkel Greatest Hits CD.(or that John Cage thing) Luckily for me, it's Sing Along With Elvis at the care home tomorrow afternoon, where I shall feel at home, even though I'm not a resident, The lecture on the structure of Bartok's String Quartets didn't go down too well, I'm afraid.

Our next local lunchtime concert features the great Schubert String Quintet. I shall do my very best to (a) stay awake and (b) watch the performers carefully in an attempt to find out what Franz was up to. I should be able to fit it, and my current traversal of Shostakovich's String Quartets, in between some of the dross that (I've recently realized) is what I seem to spend an unconscionable proportion of my time enjoying.

[french frank]

Wot no Private Passions?

Too parochial. Not interested in individual programmes. The proposal to reduce broadcasting hours was a way to cut costs (and it's not me that is agitating to cut costs!). I'm trying to be accommodating to a range of listeners - none of whom are going to be satisfied with having their faves reduced. I wouldn't cut jazz and world music out just because they don't interest me personally.

As wind-ups go, I must admit that this one really is pretty impressive.

No intention to wind anyone up. You don't have to be defensive about what you enjoy listening to. Just explain how it fits into a traditionally 'cultural' Radio 3. If you have a coherent argument as to what R3 should broadcast and why, which makes no reference to what you happen to like, let's hear it. I could certainly come up with arguments supporting the presence of drama, poetry, 'classical' music (ancient and modern), discussion, talks &c.

The lecture on the structure of Bartok's String Quartets didn't go down too well, I'm afraid.

I'm not sure how that relates to Radio 3. Could you clarify?

[oddoneout]

the dross that (I've recently realized) is what I seem to spend an unconscionable proportion of my time enjoying.

You and me both LMcD.
I am saddened that we have gone back to the idea of 'worthy' or 'serious' music being the only sort permissible for R3 airwaves. Apart from the minefield of how do you define and/or decide what passes and what fails, it just takes me back to my childhood and the opinions voiced by my supposed elders and betters about that very subject.
To be clear that does not mean I think anything goes in terms of filling the R3 space, but talk of ditching Grieg for instance just because some of his his music is popular strikes me as unfortunate to say the least. Does 'serious' rule out comic opera, where does the likes of medieval dance music fall on that divide, would JSB's Coffee Cantata get in under the radar because it's written by a 'serious' composer etc.

[french frank]

You and me both LMcD.
I am saddened that we have gone back to the idea of 'worthy' or 'serious' music being the only sort permissible for R3 airwaves. Apart from the minefield of how do you define and/or decide what passes and what fails, it just takes me back to my childhood and the opinions voiced by my supposed elders and betters about that very subject.
To be clear that does not mean I think anything goes in terms of filling the R3 space, but talk of ditching Grieg for instance just because some of his his music is popular strikes me as unfortunate to say the least. Does 'serious' rule out comic opera, where does the likes of medieval dance music fall on that divide, would JSB's Coffee Cantata get in under the radar because it's written by a 'serious' composer etc.

I find that a bit muddly as an argument (where did 'worthy' and 'serious' come in? Who talked of 'ditching Grieg'? Perhaps it hinges on which audience R3 should be aimed at and, crucially, why). If people could define or describe what they think is 'permissible' and why; or similarly define or describe what they think is not 'permissible' and why these debates might actually get somewhere. Or, don't just disagree with me, explain why, say how my opinion needs evidential support. That seems to be the essence of a debate.

I feel that too much of the BBC's rationale is based on expediency.

[oddoneout]

I find that a bit muddly as an argument (where did 'worthy' and 'serious' come in? Who talked of 'ditching Grieg'? Perhaps it hinges on which audience R3 should be aimed at and, crucially, why). If people could define or describe what they think is 'permissible' and why; or similarly define or describe what they think is not 'permissible' and why these debates might actually get somewhere. Or, don't just disagree with me, explain why, say how my opinion needs evidential support. That seems to be the essence of a debate.

I feel that too much of the BBC's rationale is based on expediency.

My apologies for not being good at debate.
The comments were prompted by Vinyl to MP3 Conversion
I agree with your last statement.

[Roslynmuse]

I find that a bit muddly as an argument (where did 'worthy' and 'serious' come in? Who talked of 'ditching Grieg'? Perhaps it hinges on which audience R3 should be aimed at and, crucially, why). If people could define or describe what they think is 'permissible' and why; or similarly define or describe what they think is not 'permissible' and why these debates might actually get somewhere. Or, don't just disagree with me, explain why, say how my opinion needs evidential support. That seems to be the essence of a debate.

I feel that too much of the BBC's rationale is based on expediency.

Re Grieg - see post 342; re serious and worthy - perhaps a paraphrase of 'difficult' - see post 351