Vienna Philharmonic New Year's Concert 2024

[Dave2002]

I don't know too much about Thielemann, so I had to look him up. Seems he specialised in strings [viola] and keyboard [piano] before becoming a conductor.

The orchestra were attentive to him - as shown by their eyes, but did it really do much for the music? I felt that the wind and brass players weren't actually allowed to be expressive in their own way - which came out as a very subdued balance on the TV.

I had thought he is a pretty decent conductor, and perhaps he is - in repertoire which suits him. This wasn't terrible - most things held together - but there didn't seem to be too much flair and sparkle.

Regarding recordings and patching up errors in the video, DVD releases etc,, it seems that there were several performances of the whole event over a few days for different audiences, so perhaps some edits might make use of any recordings from those.

I may look out for some other works conducted by Thielemann - this concert maybe didn't show him in the best light.

[Ein Heldenleben]

I'm sure you are right and the premature applause will be kept in but one can imagine a 'head in hands' moment among the Sony recording team. I won't be buying the CD or Blu-ray/DVD anyway.

Those with long memories will remember the time(1987) that Karajan mistakenly forgot the encore item and began conducting The Blue Danube instead only to suddenly realise and stop. Karajan took the laughter in good part but the subsequent DVD release had numerous obvious edits from one of the other two performances and his embarrassment was edited out.

I think that the audience at this concert has markedly changed over the years. During the Boskovsky era and before TV first broadcast proceedings in 1963, the audience would have been almost exclusively Viennese with seats handed down from one generation to another. Indeed, I recall seeing one gentleman, a Peter Ustinov lookalike, sitting in the same seat year after year. Also, I seem to recall that the concert was in aid of the VPO pension fund.

All this has changed with a global television audience and greater ease of travel plus, of course, the internet. It's become a plaything of the rich, a place to be seen on New Year's Day and more than half of the audience have little interest in the music, hence the moronic applause.

The Boskovsky era was by far the best. There was always plenty of humour, even some good comedy routines from the orchestral percussionists. Everyone had a good time and the fizz and sparkle got the New Year off to a great start.

Now it's all so earnest. No-one seems to even smile, even amongst the orchestra. There's a ridiculous obsession with counting the number of women in the orchestra and stupid Nazi comments are still made, even on here. The same merry-go-round of mostly elderly conductors with little feeling for the music but raking in the €€€€ nevertheless, all now at the mercy of the recording companies is killing it.

The fun has gone out of it and has been doing for some time. The Vienna Philharmonic need to have a rethink and go back to basics, notably with a change in conductor policy.

Anyway, those are my thoughts. I'd be interested to hear from other long-term NYDC watchers.

I’ve been a long term viewer. For me the problem is partly the ORF packaging . The cheesy ballet sequences , the clunky interval feature with terrible “acting.” The whole feel inside in the hall is so leaden visually - far too many flowers , very overlit , the undertaker dress of the band and so many unsmiling faces in the stalls. It feels like a Requiem. It also radiates mittel - European self satisfaction.
On musical note some conductors either don’t “swing” or just don’t get the feather light nature of Strauss and in particular don’t get the best out of the strings especially the fiddle lines. In a wicked moment I often wonder whether Andre Rieu would make a better job if it.

[oddoneout]

I’ve been a long term viewer. For me the problem is partly the ORF packaging . The cheesy ballet sequences , the clunky interval feature with terrible “acting.” The whole feel inside in the hall is so leaden visually - far too many flowers , very overlit , the undertaker dress of the band and so many unsmiling faces in the stalls. It feels like a Requiem. It also radiates mittel - European self satisfaction.
On musical note some conductors either don’t “swing” or just don’t get the feather light nature of Strauss and in particular don’t get the best out of the strings especially the fiddle lines. In a wicked moment I often wonder whether Andre Rieu would make a better job if it.

I watched a documentary about Andre Rieu a few years ago, on the basis of which I would say that yes he might do a better job in some respects... Costumes rather than formal dress, smiles and genuine audience happiness much in evidence. Being a player directing, rather than having a conductor, changes things as well. But I doubt the concerts would please the music pundits, or the NYD audience demographic, who doubtless wouldn't want to attend the Andre Rieu Vienna concerts.

[LMcD]

Why does this matter to you? What does it have to do with the music? Again, it's taking what should be a light-hearted concert much too seriously. Therein lies the problem.

One reason I switched off was that Thielemann seemed to be taking it all too seriously and I found myself starting to wonder why rather than just listening to the music. Another reason was that I didn't find found the pieces that were being played that interesting or enjoyable. It wasn't a question of whether it 'mattered' - I just decided to listen to something which I thought would be more enjoyable.
The TV director may have included a number of close-ups of female players for the reason which I outlined above, or maybe he just likes looking at attractive women and assumed that at least some viewers would like to share his enjoyment.

[LHC]

On paper at least Thielemann ought to be a good choice for these concerts. Its a repertoire he clearly knows and enjoys as witness the Lehar and operetta concerts he performed every year in Dresden a decade ago. Those were fun and he really appeared to be enjoying himself.

However, in the intervening years his performances of everything have become duller and more leaden (at least to my ears), and this was no different. It was one of the dullest and least 'sparkling' NYD concerts I can remember.

As others have noted, everything is taken too seriously now and the whole thing is little more than an enormous commercial machine operating to a tired formula. Even when a conductor tries to introduce a lighter note into the proceedings, it comes over as rather forced and embarrassing (for example when Welser-Most handed out cuddly toys as gifts to members of the orchestra at the end of the concert).

They really need to introduce some younger and more dynamic conductors and preferably some with a feel for the repertoire, rather than always choosing superannuated octogenarians or those with a recognisably commercial name.

[smittims]

I agree with Petrushka's comments about the way the concert has changed. But then, so many long-standing institutions have changed for the worse (cricket, motor racing, the Proms, the Olympic Games) usually when money becomes so terribly important.

'Tradition is slovenliness' said Gustav Mahler, who, though not Viennese, did have something to do with the place.

[Petrushka]

I’ve been a long term viewer. For me the problem is partly the ORF packaging . The cheesy ballet sequences , the clunky interval feature with terrible “acting.” The whole feel inside in the hall is so leaden visually - far too many flowers , very overlit , the undertaker dress of the band and so many unsmiling faces in the stalls. It feels like a Requiem. It also radiates mittel - European self satisfaction.
On musical note some conductors either don’t “swing” or just don’t get the feather light nature of Strauss and in particular don’t get the best out of the strings especially the fiddle lines. In a wicked moment I often wonder whether Andre Rieu would make a better job if it.

I've watched and listened to every NYDC since 1972 and, believe me, the ballet sequences were of a cheesiness that was off the scale in those days but it never really mattered very much. The music survived!

I would urge you to watch the 1974 concert (actually the second half) available on YouTube for plenty of smiling faces and laughter in both audience and orchestra. Boskovsky got it all so brilliantly right.

This year's was the first that I would describe as dull. The orchestra's attire and ORF interval feature don't really matter but when you get a dull NYDC then it's a big worry.

Ÿes, the music is light of touch but underneath the gorgeous melodies there is a wistful melancholy, especially in the music of Josef Strauss, that is so deeply Viennese that only conductors such as Krauss, Boskovsky, Karajan and Carlos Kleiber, who have done this concert and who were steeped in the tradition, truly bring out.

[LMcD]

On paper at least Thielemann ought to be a good choice for these concerts. Its a repertoire he clearly knows and enjoys as witness the Lehar and operetta concerts he performed every year in Dresden a decade ago. Those were fun and he really appeared to be enjoying himself.

However, in the intervening years his performances of everything have become duller and more leaden (at least to my ears), and this was no different. It was one of the dullest and least 'sparkling' NYD concerts I can remember.

As others have noted, everything is taken too seriously now and the whole thing is little more than an enormous commercial machine operating to a tired formula. Even when a conductor tries to introduce a lighter note into the proceedings, it comes over as rather forced and embarrassing (for example when Welser-Most handed out cuddly toys as gifts to members of the orchestra at the end of the concert).

They really need to introduce some younger and more dynamic conductors and preferably some with a feel for the repertoire, rather than always choosing superannuated octogenarians or those with a recognisably commercial name.

John Wilson is 12 years younger than Thielemann and Kirill Karabits is even younger.

[Ein Heldenleben]

I've watched and listened to every NYDC since 1972 and, believe me, the ballet sequences were of a cheesiness that was off the scale in those days but it never really mattered very much. The music survived!

I would urge you to watch the 1974 concert (actually the second half) available on YouTube for plenty of smiling faces and laughter in both audience and orchestra. Boskovsky got it all so brilliantly right.

This year's was the first that I would describe as dull. The orchestra's attire and ORF interval feature don't really matter but when you get a dull NYDC then it's a big worry.

Ÿes, the music is light of touch but underneath the gorgeous melodies there is a wistful melancholy, especially in the music of Josef Strauss, that is so deeply Viennese that only conductors such as Krauss, Boskovsky, Karajan and Carlos Kleiber, who have done this concert and who were steeped in the tradition, truly bring out.

I remember the Boskovky performances well. As I recall he led -Strauss style - with violin in hand. He had a profound understanding both of string playing and the Viennese tradition. Presumably the musicians partly took their cue from watching his masterly bow work. This got me thinking - is it time to find another violinist / conductor ? God knows there enough pianists turned conductors many of whom , one suspects , don’t know much about strings. One (less wicked suggestion than Andre Rieu ) - Nicola Benedetti….Another slightly wicked one Nigel Kennedy …Anything really to shake off the torpor.
On the melancholy note how much of that is our knowledge of Austro Hungarian history? There’s definitely a nostalgia there though isn’t there.?

[LHC]

I remember the Boskovky performances well. As I recall he led -Strauss style - with violin in hand. He had a profound understanding both of string playing and the Viennese tradition. Presumably the musicians partly took their cue from watching his masterly bow work. This got me thinking - is it time to find another violinist / conductor ? God knows there enough pianists turned conductors many of whom , one suspects , don’t know much about strings. One (less wicked suggestion than Andre Rieu ) - Nicola Benedetti….Another slightly wicked one Nigel Kennedy …Anything really to shake off the torpor.
On the melancholy note how much of that is our knowledge of Austro Hungarian history? There’s definitely a nostalgia there though isn’t there.?

As I recall, Maazel insisted on playing his violin as well as conducting when he did the NYDC. Mind you, I think that was more about him showing off, rather than demonstrating his understanding of Strauss's writing for strings.

If you want a violinist/ conductor Nikolaj Szeps-Znaider might be a better fit as he does actually conduct now.

[Nick Armstrong]

One reason I switched off was that Thielemann seemed to be taking it all too seriously and I found myself starting to wonder why rather than just listening to the music. Another reason was that I didn't find found the pieces that were being played that interesting or enjoyable.

I’ve just finished dipping into the TV recording I set while I was away…

… (and deleting it, bar the neo-Ken Russell Bruckner interval feature which I’ve yet to watch in full)

The music-making didn’t seem to me to be hugely worse or better than previous years (bar the standout Kleiber & Prêtre concerts), but I found there’s something fascinatingly awful about Thielemann. I can’t put my finger on it, just subtly grotesque. And when it got to his antics in the Radetzky March, it struck me he was like a tuxedo’d musical Donald Trump, patronising popularism in his gurning and gestures (including to players - twiddling fingers pointlessly indicating trills, etc). I found it an unsettling and creepy experience

[Ein Heldenleben]

I’ve just finished dipping into the TV recording I set while I was away…

… (and deleting it, bar the neo-Ken Russell Bruckner interval feature which I’ve yet to watch in full)

The music-making didn’t seem to me to be hugely worse or better than previous years (bar the standout Kleiber & Prêtre concerts), but I found there’s something fascinatingly awful about Thielemann. I can’t put my finger on it, just subtly grotesque. And when it got to his antics in the Radetzky March, it struck me he was like a tuxedo’d musical Donald Trump, patronising popularism in his gurning and gestures (including to players - twiddling fingers pointlessly indicating trills, etc). I found it an unsettling and creepy experience

He’s very weird isn’t he ?
Yes why was he trilling at the first violinists ? Can he actually play a violin trill? I suspect the strings in the VPO might just know a tiny bit more about that …
To be fair he wasn’t wearing a tuxedo but what I would call Viennese formal banker’s dress. I’m sure it’s a great city but everything (part from the music ) about this TV programme puts me off wanting to go there. I don’t even like the hideous flowers.

[Prommer]

He’s very weird isn’t he ?
Yes why was he trilling at the first violinists ? Can he actually play a violin trill? I suspect the strings in the VPO might just know a tiny bit more about that.

Viola and piano were his instruments.

[Barbirollians]

Muti understands the VPO very well and is very good at conducting this music, witness his audience-less 2021 NYDC which is among the better ones of recent efforts. Moreover, 2025 will be the bicentenary of the birth of Johann Strauss (son) so the VPO might well want an experienced hand on the tiller and a big name on the CD cover.

When Boskovsky succeeded Clemens Krauss in 1955 he was the orchestra's concertmaster and was doubtful of his ability to take it on. In the end he was there for 25 years.

The big names are fast disappearing. The orchestra need to promote someone to take it on before the major names have gone completely. I'd feel fairly sure that someone within their own ranks could produce the goods. Younger conductors of this concert, such as Nelsons and Thielemann, don't seem to have much feeling for the music. Welser-Möst did a fine NYDC last year and I'd hope that he gets invited back soon.

I agree about Muti . I think his 2021 concert was the best since Pretre's outings. It contains an outstanding Emperor Waltz in particular and was the first CD of a NYD I bought since Kleiber's 1992 outing.

[Ein Heldenleben]

Viola and piano were his instruments.

Perhaps he should conduct/lead Boskovsky style while playing the viola and strike a much needed blow for this overlooked section of the orchestral mix ?