Basingstoke gets Rattled

[Alain Maréchal]

I think you need to think through the economics of running a concert hall and an orchestra.
.

Not so: its the duty of the management not the audience to do that. I don't expect to advise the shopkeeper how to run his business. I note that you have mentioned "commercial sense". The sale of goods usually involves a long chain of processes which presumably has economic consequences - but the customer pays once, at the point of sale, so all the hard work (and I am sure there is a lot) is of no interest to the concertgoer, nor should it be.

As a start, why not stop the practice (c or s? I'm never sure) of conductors' diaries being managed years in advance?

an afterthought: if these things have to be managed that far in advance today, what has changed over the years, since it was certainly possible in the past, and why not do something about it?

[MrGongGong]

I would not have taken notice of anything about the economics other than the increased costs to me, and the request to part with the money earlier, but does this not reinforce my earlier point that the musicians should try to do something about it?

Why should musicians "do something about it?"

For some of us it works a bit like this

I get an email from a music festival asking me if I would like to do some work with them.
"Yes please", is my response.
They tell me they are thinking of planning a whole season of obscure live electronics for The Proms 2018 and would I like to compose a piece for them.
"Yes please", (its getting better)
To get me started they send me some money to start work and a contact that says how much I will get for the performance in 2018.
Armed with this I can relax a bit as I know something is coming in in 2018 and I text my children to tell them that we will be able to have a holiday after all..

BUT you seem to think I should try and "do something about it" ?

ERM....... why would I do that?

[MrGongGong]

As a start, why not stop the practice (c or s? I'm never sure) of conductors' diaries being managed years in advance?

Why would you want to do that?
Just so you can save a few bob or want to clap your hands for the dancing girls to appear when you want them?

[Sir Velo]

Not so: its the duty of the management not the audience to do that.

That's the exact point I've been making; as responsible management they are putting these tickets on sale now. The hall has to pay Rattle an advance; if they don't get money in now from the punters they will be out of pocket. No way to run a business.

No one's forcing you to buy your ticket now. You can wait and take your chances nearer the time, though chances are if you fancy a bit of B&B on the day, it will have to be at the touts' asking price, and not the Anvil's very reasonable offer.

[Alain Maréchal]

Why would you want to do that?
Just so you can save a few bob or want to clap your hands for the dancing girls to appear when you want them?

You seem to have ignored my original point: this is not about money, this is about the expectation that audiences should plan their lives a year in advance, something I consider unreasonable.

[MrGongGong]

You seem to have ignored my original point: this is not about money, this about the expectation that audiences should plan their lives a year in advance, something I consider unreasonable.

I fail to see why you find that so unreasonable ?

You don't HAVE to plan anything but you might miss something.... same if you want to get a cheap flight to Australia

And your idea that somehow musicians would be in favour of your suggestion is most bizarre

[Simon B]

this about the expectation that audiences should plan their lives a year in advance, something I consider unreasonable.

Aside from the arguments above, this is a no-win anyway as many concert goers hold a diametrically opposing view. How are managements supposed to reconcile that?

The proof for this is the Proms. Every year in various places (here included) people will complain that the 3 months notice is inadequate, and for pretty solid practical reasons. Anyone troubled by the tedious imposition of having to dissipate most of their waking lives on working for a living on typical terms may well find this to be so. Likewise, 12 weeks notice is needed to get the best (albeit still rarely reasonable) train fares etc for those not within a stone's throw of a few metropolitan bubbles.

For classical concerts and opera, most venues (the Proms being the exception other than in limited terms) offer the opportunity to return your tickets near the event in exchange for credit notes usually valid for 6-12 months. This seems a reasonable compromise to me in the circumstances.

[Alain Maréchal]

I fail to see why you find that so unreasonable ?

You don't HAVE to plan anything but you might miss something.... same if you want to get a cheap flight to Australia

I will agree to the substitution in #35 of "would" for "should" and "unlikely" for "unreasonable", if it helps, but I honestly do not understand how anybody can predict now about their interests in a year's time.

I didn't know flights have to be booked so far ahead, but then I've never wanted a cheap flight to anywhere. That appears to be another area where the consumers should be up in arms. I have certainly paid for 10 Eurotunnel traverses in advance, but they last for a year, the times are at my choosing a few hours in advance and I can change them whenever I wish. I can't do that in concert halls or theatres.

[Sir Velo]

You seem to have ignored my original point: this is not about money, this is about the expectation that audiences should plan their lives a year in advance, something I consider unreasonable.

With all due respect this is, to use current business parlance, about managing your pipeline.

The Anvil could wait until next year before booking any artists and I'm sure they'd have no problem getting the Alton String Quartet, or the Hampshire Haveagoes, but whether this would pay the overheads is dubious at best.

As I said above, no one is forcing you to buy now. If you feel more in the mood nearer the time, check the website - there may well be the odd return; or you can pay touts' prices. Otherwise, why not stay clear of Brahms and Bruckner for the next 12 months? That way, you will be bound to be salivating at the prospect of a whole concert come next April!

[MrGongGong]

I will agree to the substitution in #35 of "would" for "should" and "unlikely" for "unreasonable", if it helps, but I honestly do not understand how anybody can predict now about their interests in a year's time.

(I didn't know flights have to be booked so far ahead, but then I've never wanted a cheap flight to anywhere.)

You still haven't explained why you think musicians should "do something about it" ?

[teamsaint]

in a sense, booking for a years time is less trouble than for 3 months time. Who, apart from top conductors and opera singers, has anything firm in their diary for an evening next April ?

Ok, things do change, but in the event of a really unavoidable clash with something even more important than seeing Denis conduct Bruckner, there is likely to be a decent market for the ticket.
( I recently double booked myself at the Anvil and the Mayflower , and the Anvil were kind enough to swap me for another concert in the series at no cost).

It is a bit of a pain too, to have the , say £100 in the promoters pocket for a year, but its nice to have that experience , paid for, and to look forward to. Well that's how I look at it.

I know we all moan about tickets, prices etc, but classical fans really don't have it too bad. You could rock up to the RFH on election night, pay £9 and see Petrenko, Till Felner, and hear Mozart and Mahler performed by a top orchestra.

you can get about 20 minutes premier league football in Southampton for about the same money, or about 15 minutes at Stamford Bridge, if you can get a ticket or remember to book early enough.

Gosh, what a sunny mood I am in today. see what a couple of big orders can do for a chap's outlook on life.

( Edit....though I stick by my assertion that generally ticket prices at the Anvil are a bit steep, in the main, compared to other concert halls.).

[Alain Maréchal]

You still haven't explained why you think musicians should "do something about it" ?

Because you are the ones who think (to be precise, in this context you appear to be the one who thinks) that they should not be subject to normal commercial arrangements whereby the consumer makes the choice and pays nearer the point of consumption. (I have a restaurant table booked for lunch next Sunday: I have no intention of ordering my menu now).

Incidentally Sir Velo, this concert in Basingstoke was merely an example. I have no wish to attend it. There are nearer opportunities.

[Alain Maréchal]

in a sense, booking for a years time is less trouble than for 3 months time. Who, apart from top conductors and opera singers, has anything firm in their diary for an evening next April ?


( I recently double booked myself at the Anvil and the Mayflower , and the Anvil were kind enough to swap me for another concert in the series at no cost).

My diary for next April is entirely empty I am happy to say (although I have no idea when Easter falls), and I intend keeping in that way for quite some time. I may decide to take up ski-ing, who knows?.

Your experience with double booking is the first reference I have ever encountered to anybody getting a refund from a box-office. Do you have influence?

[MrGongGong]

Because you are the ones who think (to be precise, in this context you appear to be the one who thinks) that they should not be subject to normal commercial arrangements whereby the consumer makes the choice and pays nearer the point of consumption.

So if you commission someone to build you a house (for example) you don't pay a penny until the day you move in?

Why (again) would musicians NOT want to have bookings for a year ahead? (which is what you suggested)
The musicians don't get paid until they have done the playing BUT someone might be commissioned to write a new piece who does get paid before the performance.

[teamsaint]

My diary for next April is entirely empty I am happy to say (although I have no idea when Easter falls), and I intend keeping in that way for quite some time. I may decide to take up ski-ing, who knows?.

Your experience with double booking is the first reference I have ever encountered to anybody getting a refund from a box-office. Do you have influence?

I rang up and asked nicely, explaining my mistake. Luckily, because concerts within their " International Concert " series are run by the same promoter, ( which is the key thing I think) they are happy to swap within the series.
I was lucky, and it taught me that even when booking for a Thursday night in November, it is best to check the diary !! ( or to book cheap tickets if there is any risk attached !!)