R3 Live in Concert 11.3.15 - LPO/Manze: "Enduring English Treasures"

[Nick Armstrong]

Good programme:


"Enduring English treasures"

Manze conducts Elgar, Ireland and Walton

7:30 PM, Royal Festival Hall, London

Elgar Introduction and Allegro
Ireland Piano Concerto
Walton Symphony No. 1

Andrew Manze conductor
Piers Lane piano
London Philharmonic Orchestra



I'm certainly going to be listening. In fact I can't quite understand why I'm not actually going to it...

[eighthobstruction]

In fact I can't quite understand why I'm not actually going to it... [/COLOR]

....perhaps there's something amiss with your Crown Jewels?....

[Nick Armstrong]

....perhaps there's something amiss with your Crown Jewels?....

Let me check......................................

[BBMmk2]

Good programme:


"Enduring English treasures"

Manze conducts Elgar, Ireland and Walton

7:30 PM, Royal Festival Hall, London

Elgar Introduction and Allegro
Ireland Piano Concerto
Walton Symphony No. 1

Andrew Manze conductor
Piers Lane piano
London Philharmonic Orchestra



I'm certainly going to be listening. In fact I can't quite understand why I'm not actually going to it...

Unfortunately, it be a catch up scene for me.

[Alison]

Sounds mighty fine so far. Are we to finally get the Walton 1 of our dreams or at least one that isn't ever so slightly disappointing?

[Alison]

Wow, no sense of being short changed there. No wimping out at climaxes and no last movement anti-climax.

A score that really demands power and stamina and got both here from the gloriously full toned LPO.

Far more convincing than the recent Gardner/BBC SO CD to my ears.

Superb concert all round.

[Lento]

Enjoyed the John Ireland binge: an individual voice, though also a bit of a conservative, noodling magpie, some might say. Has his solo piano music fallen out of repertoire as well as the concerto, I wonder? I find the concerto a less convincing piece than the fine miniatures featured during the interval.

Found myself listening for traces of Sibelius after Manze's remark about Walton 1, and was not disappointed: I could hear it in the first mvt especially, having not thought about this before. I still think Walton should have done something else with the ending: too long imv, and rather odd, too.

[Nick Armstrong]

a bit of a conservative, noodling magpie, some might say. Has his solo piano music fallen out of repertoire as well as the concerto, I wonder? I find the concerto a less convincing piece than the fine miniatures featured during the interval.

I completely agree about the latter, and would be one of those who would say the former. I recall now why I probably didn't plump for this concert - I've given Ireland's piano concerto the benefit of the doubt before, and been disappointed - so was put off, I think. I always optimistically think there must be SOME reason it was so popular. But oh dear it's not a great piece, is it? Sounds to me like 6 or 7 light music tone-pictures sellotaped together to make a three movement work.

Agree with Alison, lots to like about the Walton! The playing (especially the flute) in the slow movement lacked the beauty of the same orchestra 1987-vintage under Slatkin (which I've recently got to know thanks to the Beefy one), I thought. But I liked the last movement especially.

[teamsaint]

I completely agree about the latter, and would be one of those who would say the former. I recall now why I probably didn't plump for this concert - I've given Ireland's piano concerto the benefit of the doubt before, and been disappointed - so was put off, I think. I always optimistically think there must be SOME reason it was so popular. But oh dear it's not a great piece, is it? Sounds to me like 6 or 7 light music tone-pictures sellotaped together to make a three movement work.

Agree with Alison, lots to like about the Walton! The playing (especially the flute) in the slow movement lacked the beauty of the same orchestra 1987-vintage under Slatkin (which I've recently got to know thanks to the Beefy one), I thought. But I liked the last movement especially.

I agree, that the final movement was excellent, but this symphony seems to get easier for the orchestra as it progresses.
The first movement always seems to be the problem one, and I wonder if the performance problems are just too fundamental?

Tonight I found myself wanting a much ( or even) stronger feel of the pulse early on, the music seems to demand it. But as the movement progresses,this need falls away,and Somehow , and I dont know why, because it is hardly unique in this, it seems to lead to problems in producing something that feels completely cohesive and with unified purpose.

Or something.

Anyhow, excellent stuff, and I hope Simon B was there to give his thoughts, as surely the work's number one fan, and a fine judge.


Oh, and wonderful work though it is, perhaps the odd run out for a work by Simpson, Rubbra or Arnold might make a nice and arena filling change?

[Rcartes]

Wow, no sense of being short changed there. No wimping out at climaxes and no last movement anti-climax.

A score that really demands power and stamina and got both here from the gloriously full toned LPO.

Far more convincing than the recent Gardner/BBC SO CD to my ears.

Superb concert all round.

Absolutely disagree about the Walton: one of the worst performances of it I've ever heard. Maybe it sounded better on the radio (I shall have to try it on the iPlayer later), but for me the 1st and 2nd movements were horribly incoherent. The 1st has wonderful drive and it's so important to keep the momentum going, but here it all dissolved into a miserable mess. Unbelievably poor!

[Rcartes]

Found myself listening for traces of Sibelius after Manze's remark about Walton 1, and was not disappointed: I could hear it in the first mvt especially, having not thought about this before. I still think Walton should have done something else with the ending: too long imv, and rather odd, too.

Walton certainly had great difficulty finishing the 4th movement, in fact there's the story that he asked a friend who said "Why not try a fugue?" What's a fugue," Walton asked, and was told, and that's what he decided to do. And the very end, with that beautiful but rather out of place solo trumpet, is also a bit strange and not really fitting the rest. Notwithstanding these points, for me the symphony is a wonderful work and Walton's masterpiece.

[Nick Armstrong]

Absolutely disagree about the Walton: one of the worst performances of it I've ever heard. Maybe it sounded better on the radio (I shall have to try it on the iPlayer later), but for me the 1st and 2nd movements were horribly incoherent. The 1st has wonderful drive and it's so important to keep the momentum going, but here it all dissolved into a miserable mess. Unbelievably poor!

Oh dear. I was doing things during the first two movements so couldn't really judge. Come back once you've had a listen!

En passant: a couple of uncharacteristic malapropisms from Mr Skelly in his announcements. In the first half, the orchestra were said to be "arraigned" around the piano (we don't want any more invovement of the criminal law in musical matters...); and at the end, Manze was described as having conducted "with bravado" ... (I assume he meant "bravura")...

[EdgeleyRob]

Trouble with any Walton 1,for me at any rate,is I'm always expecting them to be as good as LSO Previn or Philharmonia Haitink.
They never are and I thought this had it's moments but on he whole was ordinary.
Can't believe the 'dissing' of John Ireland's wonderful piano concerto,each to his own I suppose,on second thoughts no,consider yourselves ticked off again.
This supposed Sibelius influence on certain British composers escapes me completely.
Nice programme.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

.. in fact there's the story that he asked a friend who said "Why not try a fugue?" What's a fugue," Walton asked, and was told, and that's what he decided to do.

But this is only a "story" - not only had Walton been brought up on the choral classics as a child, thus encountering many fugues, (and being the son of a Music teacher, and a graduate in Music at Oxford) - but there's also a rather fine fugue (starting at figure 55) in the finale of the Viola Concerto, written six years before the Symphony.

[Roehre]

Walton certainly had great difficulty finishing the 4th movement, in fact there's the story that he asked a friend who said "Why not try a fugue?" What's a fugue," Walton asked, and was told, and that's what he decided to do. And the very end, with that beautiful but rather out of place solo trumpet, is also a bit strange and not really fitting the rest. Notwithstanding these points, for me the symphony is a wonderful work and Walton's masterpiece.

So there is SOME truth in (IIRC) Hindemith's exclamation "Wann man nicht weiss wie man weiter kann, fängt man mit einer fuge an" (if you don't know how to continue, begin a fugue)