R3 Live in Concert 11.3.15 - LPO/Manze: "Enduring English Treasures"

[Serial_Apologist]

Walton certainly had great difficulty finishing the 4th movement, in fact there's the story that he asked a friend who said "Why not try a fugue?" What's a fugue," Walton asked, and was told, and that's what he decided to do. And the very end, with that beautiful but rather out of place solo trumpet, is also a bit strange and not really fitting the rest. Notwithstanding these points, for me the symphony is a wonderful work and Walton's masterpiece.

My thought about it is that Walton nearly always had problems finishing his large-scaled works, and it showed. The final "triumphant" section of "Belshazzar" (which I would claim his greatest work) goes on for far too long: it might have been better had he ended the work after the thrilling "imperialistic" march that culminates the "gods" section, or completely rewritten the finale making it much shorter; the immediately following semi-recap seems redundant and the concluding section leaves an overall sense of imbalance. Formally-speaking, the Violin Concerto seems his most balanced achievement, and is by far my favourite work of his.

[cloughie]

Trouble with any Walton 1,for me at any rate,is I'm always expecting them to be as good as LSO Previn or Philharmonia Haitink.
They never are and I thought this had it's moments but on he whole was ordinary.
Can't believe the 'dissing' of John Ireland's wonderful piano concerto,each to his own I suppose,on second thoughts no,consider yourselves ticked off again.
This supposed Sibelius influence on certain British composers escapes me completely.
Nice programme.

But then edge, doesn't Sibelius escape you generally - some years back I heard Walton 1 referred to as Sib 8 and I think I know what they meant.

[Nick Armstrong]

Can't believe the 'dissing' of John Ireland's wonderful piano concerto,each to his own I suppose,on second thoughts no,consider yourselves ticked off again.

But this is only a "story" - not only had Walton been brought up on the choral classics as a child, thus encountering many fugues, (and being the son of a Music teacher, and a graduate in Music at Oxford) - but there's also a rather fine fugue (starting at figure 55) in the finale of the Viola Concerto, written six years before the Symphony.

[mercia]

pedantically, I didn't think Walton did graduate (??)

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

pedantically, I didn't think Walton did graduate (??)

- read "an undergraduate" (he'd've still studied fugue).

[Pabmusic]

...This supposed Sibelius influence on certain British composers escapes me completely.
Nice programme.

Yes, good programme. As far as any Sibelius influence is concerned, we should remember in what high regard Sibelius was held among British composers* in the 1930s and 40s. You can't miss it in - say - Moeran's symphony any more than in Walton's 1st (right from the opening bars).

* [Not just composers. Beecham and Wood were both avid Sibelians, and writers and critics such as Rosa Newmarch and Gerald Abraham were stong supporters; in fact, you can argue quite convincingly that Britain did most to promote Sibelius in those days.]

[mercia]

(he'd've still studied fugue).

quite. I assume (perhaps wrongly) that these days things like fugue writing have disappeared from the syllabus (??).
[what is involved in studying composition ?]

[teamsaint]

quite. I assume (perhaps wrongly) that these days things like fugue writing have disappeared from the syllabus (??).
[what is involved in studying composition ?]

Don't they just make it up as they go along?

[Ferretfancy]

I seem to have heard a slightly different concert from the front stalls. This was Andrew Manze's first concert with the LPO, and I thought they were on good form. I did think it slightly odd that he chose to have a carefully placed string quartet in the Elgar Introduction and Allegro, but did not have divided violins. I imagine that the upper strings were all bunched to the left heard in stereo on air.
I have loved the Ireland Piano Concerto since I was at school, and conveyed my teenage enthusiasm to a visiting piano teacher who agreed with me and promptly sat down and played most of the slow movement from memory!
I was not over impressed with Piers Lane's performance last night. From where I sat the piano tone was very spikey and brittle, so that it seemed to come out more Prokofiev than Ireland. The playing was very choppy in the first movement, and later most of the romance was lost in Lane's rather matter of fact interpretation.

In my view the Walton was excellent, far more impressive than some of the recorded performances from the last few years. Perhaps the dynamic range was a little narrow, but I wasn't quarrelling, and the orchestra looked happy at the end.

While I was there I bought the recording made last year to celebrate the completed restoration of the RFH organ, Poulenc's Concerto and Saint-Saens 3

Oh dear, the Poulenc! What a nasty racket! Very close recording, the orchestral strings almost drowned, the organ sound overwhelming almost everything, a most unpleasant experience, and I do like the work but not on this occasion. Perhaps the engineers did not have time to achieve a good balance, the very old Durufle recording with Pretre is far more satisfying.

[Lento]

This supposed Sibelius influence on certain British composers escapes me completely.

Admittedly I was looking for traces of Sib, following Manze's comment: long bass pedal points, I thought, and some of the 1st mvt melodic/motivic shapes maybe?

[Serial_Apologist]

Admittedly I was looking for traces of Sib, following Manze's comment: long bass pedal points, I thought, and some of the 1st mvt melodic/motivic shapes maybe?

Definitely the Sib influence in the first movement is strong, for this among other reasons, but not in the rest of the work, imo.

[Alison]

Absolutely disagree about the Walton: one of the worst performances of it I've ever heard. Maybe it sounded better on the radio (I shall have to try it on the iPlayer later), but for me the 1st and 2nd movements were horribly incoherent. The 1st has wonderful drive and it's so important to keep the momentum going, but here it all dissolved into a miserable mess. Unbelievably poor!

The momentum was kept up in (i) to my ears with no loss of clarity or power. Lesser orchestras can seem to run out of steam and produce a sort of asthmatic mush but i didn't find that applied at all last night. Just my view!

[Tony Halstead]

Oh dear, the Poulenc! What a nasty racket! Very close recording, the orchestral strings almost drowned, the organ sound overwhelming almost everything, a most unpleasant experience, and I do like the work but not on this occasion. Perhaps the engineers did not have time to achieve a good balance

Err..ummm... who was the conductor of the Poulenc?

[rauschwerk]

While I was there I bought the recording made last year to celebrate the completed restoration of the RFH organ, Poulenc's Concerto and Saint-Saens 3

Oh dear, the Poulenc! What a nasty racket! Very close recording, the orchestral strings almost drowned, the organ sound overwhelming almost everything, a most unpleasant experience, and I do like the work but not on this occasion. Perhaps the engineers did not have time to achieve a good balance, the very old Durufle recording with Pretre is far more satisfying.

The organ certainly did not drown almost everything from where I sat that evening. The Preston/Previn, also made in the (empty) RFH sounds fine, so it can be done in that hall.

[Alison]

Err..ummm... who was the conductor of the Poulenc?

Mr N-Zeguin