Is Donald Runnicles the right man for the BBCSSO

[Guest]

No, I'm not saying that he isn't and I will leave it for those north of the border, who have a lot more opportunities to give an opinion than I have, to state their views.

Listening to PO3 last night, having little interest in the BBC comissioned first performance/last performance, I concentrated on what was to follow and was surprised at how little impression the Mahler songs made on me, so I settled down to listen to my favourite symphony.

It is no secret that I have a dislike of the practice of repeating the exposition just because it is there and nobody will ever convince me that those first-time bars were written by Brahms himself. To me, they are totally out of character both in style with the rest of the symphony, so that was an annoyance that needed to be put aside.

Well, there was nothing wrong with the symphony, but to me, it didn't say anything.
Accurate and neat as one expects from the BBCSSO but, apart from a bit of hysteria at the beginning of the finale, totally lifeless.

So tell me that I am wrong, if you were present in the hall or if you heard the broadcast.

VH

[Roehre]

Listening to PO3 last night, having little interest in the BBC comissioned first performance/last performance

Ventilhorn,
I am afraid I found MacRae's Gravity the only interesting part of last night's concert.

As far as Brahms 2 repeat in its 1st mvt is concerned: just have a look at either the autograph orchestral score or Brahms' own piano-4-hands reduction of the symphony. Of course both these scores could have been tempered with - but judge yourself how big a chance that would be....: the same ink, the same handwriting. Just visit the Library of the Musikfreunde in Vienna.

[Flosshilde]

Presumably it's his interpretation of the Brahms that you are querying, rather than his over-all suitability, so perhaps your question should be 'Is DR the right man for Brahms?' - I assume his interpretation would be much the same whichever orchestra he was conducting. I heard a very little of the finale of the symphony, & it actually made me think that I might like to hear it all!

The Guardian's critic said this about the Brahms -
"There's something remarkable about the way the BBC Scottish Symphony Orchestra play Brahms, especially when chief conductor Donald Runnicles is in town. Perhaps it's the particular sound they make – clear, sparse, the opposite of overblown (underblown?) – or their way of handling Romantic music as if from a distance, miles from anything resembling maudlin. Which isn't to say cold: Runnicles took the same brisk approach here with the Second Symphony as he did with the German Requiem a couple of months ago, and both tapped into all the angst and jubilation of interpretations at the other end of the spectrum"

I wasn't as moved by the Mahler as I thought I might be - the Guardian's critic said
"Scottish mezzo Karen Cargill was soloist in the Rückert-Lieder, Mahler's subdued orchestral love songs. Her voice sounded odd – blossoming at the top then turning to a veiled bleat lower down – but she's a favourite in this city, and justifiably so for her heartfelt delivery.
"
I noticed listening on the radio, but it's not something I've been aware of hearing her live in the past - perhaps she wasn't well on the night?

[Curalach]

I didn't hear the concert but I don't rate that particular critic who also contributes reviews to the Herald

[Curalach]

To address the title question, I wonder in what respect you would consider him not to be the right man.
I would have thought that this months BBCMM cover disc of Mahler 8 might suggest otherwise. Basing a judgement on one performance is rarely wise.

He is an internationally respected conductor, particularly in opera. He is a Scot, although he lives in California, soon to move his family to Berlin.
He has formed a close relationship with the orchestra, which he failed to do with the RSNO, so the chemistry is there and he wants to conduct concert works in addition to the opera which he is doing in Berlin.
On the face of it, that looks like a good fit.

In addition, he's a really nice guy!

[Ventilhorn]

To address the title question, I wonder in what respect you would consider him not to be the right man.!

I did not say that, because I have never before heard any of Mr Runnicles work. I asked for the views of those who had a greater knowledge than I, through hearing his other performances and also heard them in the Concert Hall.

I was hoping for a few more views and hopefully to stir up a little more interest from members in actual performance - as opposed to audio assembly.

It seems that putting words in someone else's mouth is one of the more unfortunate legacies of the old BBC message boards.

I'm off to listen to PERFORMANCE on 3 Would anybody care to join me?

[Flosshilde]

I did not say that [not to be the right man], because I have never before heard any of Mr Runnicles work. It seems that putting words in someone else's mouth is one of the more unfortunate legacies of the old BBC message boards.

Your original question, comments on the performance, & the phrase "So tell me that I am wrong" surely implies that you think he isn't the right man, although that view seems to be based on one performance of a symphony you have fixed views about. Curalach's question is hardly putting words into your mouth.

I've heard a few performances conducted by him, & they seemed fine to me. The BBCSSO were, I think (I expect Curalach will correct me if I'm wrong) enthusiastic about his appointment, so there's no reason to think that he's the wrong man in that respect.

[Sydney Grew]

Is [D]onald [R]unnicles the right man . . . ?

The identity of the performers must always be supremely unimportant. What matters is that Brahms should be played. It is to the ever-living Brahms and his superlative work that ninety-eight per centum of your interest thanks praise and reverence must go out. We have always maintained that to attend to the executants at the expense of the creation is a kind of cultural perversion.

[Flosshilde]

While I wouldn't go so far as to say that they are supremely unimportant, & there are some performers I would go to hear, whatever they were laying (Jordi Savall is one - but then I know that I'd like whatever he was performing), on the whole I select a concert because of the programme.

[Roehre]

The identity of the performers must always be supremely unimportant. ... We have always maintained that to attend to the executants at the expense of the creation is a kind of cultural perversion.

Though I would have worded this differently, I share this opinion generally.

[Curalach]

on the whole I select a concert because of the programme.

All research indicates that the main attraction for audiences to concerts is programme.
There are a few soloists and conductors who can be the main draw in their own right, but they are the exception.
There are regional and local variations.
In Scotland, for example, any concert with Benedetti is a guaranteed sell-out, which might not be the case elsewhere, as indeed is any concert with John Lill.

[Chris Newman]

I have to admit that there is, for me, a mystery about Brahms' symphonies and that is that they are very difficult to pull off successfully. I rarely expect satisfaction which is why I am rarely disappointed. Brahms was a composer whose orchestration technique was on a par with that of romantic masters like Dvorak, Elgar and early Schoenberg: one would have thought that his symphonies would sound as satisfying as their music more often does. However, live performances of Brahms often strike me as duds even when conducted by some of the greatest masters. Many times I have been to a Prom or the Festival Hall to hear a world class orchestra with a big name and heard a damp squib.

In my experience the greats have been Abbado, Boult, Celibidache, Downes, Haitink, Hurst, Loughran, Mackerras and Otaka. Mackerras was very different from Celibidache but they both had a masterly sense of the utterly different sound worlds and tempi that they wanted and succeeded. If a Brahms symphony is treated as something you and an orchestra have to play because it is there then you will probably end up with something amorphous.

Sometimes, when cooking or washing up, I hear myself tapping my foot to a radio recording I was only half listening to. At the end I really wish that I had been there and it turns out to be a normally average regional radio orchestra in France with a conductor I have never heard of. If that was Brahms I make a point of looking out for that conductor. If he or she can hold Brahms together that is a litmus test of a talent.

Having said that, on the basis of other music making I am convinced of Donald Runnicles talent for conducting.

[Ventilhorn]

Hi there, Chris,

Regarding Brahms symphonies, may I add Jascha Horenstein to your list?

And did you hear the famous Toscannini concerts with the Philharmonia at the RFH in the early fifties? I was told at the time that this was the definitive performances of Brahms, but it was. by all accounts, not the happiest for relations between orchestra and conductor

Glad to see you out and about again. I hope you are keeping well.

Ventilhorn

[Chris Newman]

Hi, VH,

"Regarding Brahms symphonies, may I add Jascha Horenstein to your list?"

Of course you may add Jascha Horenstein. Sadly I never heard him play any Brahms symphonies live but have some bootleg Italian Radio recordings which sound as if they were transmitted to the mike down a hosepipe. I first heard him at Dorking Halls with the LPO: Brahms Piano Concerto No 2 with John Lill and Tchaikovsky Symphony No 5. He was a great favourite of mine in most music: his Mahler and Bruckner discs rarely leave my desk top. I went to everything of his that I could. I think I have told you he often used to get on our train at East Croydon though it was months before I plucked up courage to thank him for a concert.

bws
Chris.