Berlin Philharmonic / Simon Rattle / Sibelius cycle / Barbican R3 live 10-12/02/15

[Beef Oven!]

I think they'll appear on iplayer for a month - Symphonies 1 to 4 are there already.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episodes/b053s0ys

Thanks

[Stanley Stewart]

I've just viewed with gratification an off-air DVD from Jan 2010, a two- part BBC documentary from Christopher Nupen, 50 mins each part :Jean Sibelius: The Early Years which documents his career up to the third symphony and Part 2,
Jean Sibelius: Maturity and Silence, provides a further assessment, until he was at the peak of his career in the 1930s; the leading composer of symphonies but, within a few years of his death in 1957, his standing had been eroded. Nupen cleverly uses the composer's own words to convey his intentions and the wealth of historic footage contributes a sense of dimension, along with extracts played by the Swedish Radio S.O./Ashkenazy and Elisabeth Soderstrom and Boris Belkin as soloists, all providing strong images from the musical variety of the past week.

I can now extend this programme to include the final symphonic concert, 5-7, on a single 240 mins DVD.

Sibelius's taciturn temperament also reminded me of a Noel Coward anecdote from the 1930s when he was welcomed to the composer's country retreat. In post WW2 years, he would mischievously provide the composer's address to any of his friends heading for Finland, assuring them of a warm welcome. Imagine their surprise when the door opened and they were told to 'bugger off' before they could introduce themselves! However, the play's the thing and Nupen's documentaries have insight and stature in a superb background. Worth regular viewings.

[Nick Armstrong]

I caught up this evening with Thursday's performance of the 5th, 6th & 7th symphonies.

At first hearing, I think that the 6th is quite simply one of the best performances - if not THE best - of this piece I've heard (and that includes Berglund doing a similar linked 6 & 7 some years back). I thought Rattle and the orchestra made sense of the piece as a whole in a way I can't recall before. Magnificent.

I was less taken with the 5th and 7th - seemed sometimes too plump and upholstered, a bit too splendid for the sake of it. Not sure... will listen again.

But No. 6 - the real deal, imvho

[Nick Armstrong]

Just saw some trenchant comments under the Guardian review of this concert...


It was as if Rattle had taken a piece of lovely Scandinavian knitwear, stretched it out to look at the stitching and then not noticed it had gone out of shape.

Presumably then you missed the fact that they got lost in the seventh symphony?? 'Rattle's account of the Seventh.... did not put a foot wrong' Do you actually know the piece? You could at least accurately represent what happened?!

5 stars? The first movement of the 5th was ragged, and the rest of symphony was prosaic. Joining the 6th and 7th just did not work. Also Rattle got the colours of the trombone playing all wrong. After the marvels of the previous concert this was an anticlimax. The orchestra needed a night off from this music.

[jayne lee wilson]

Well, talk about conflicting opinions...

Having found No. 5, to say the least, hard going in the Barbican relay, I took a listen to 6/7 in the Berlin DCH...

I seem to have a physiological aversion to 256 kpbs, but despite the music always seeming too sensuously or emotionally detached at this level, I pressed on.
The performance made more sense in the Philharmonie; the balance, the fullness, the Berlin Sound (at least as mediated by Rattle) came together in a way lost to the Barbican relays (even at 320). So I could hear, if not feel, what was going on: textures unusually full, even plush, for the sixth - tempi very steady; an attempt to marry the sharper, cooler Sibelian tradition to the present, warmly beautiful, Berliner one; not without life or interest, far from it; and with the possibility of something really new emerging...
But I would need a higher resolution (CD or 24-bit) to really get a grasp of it.
I would certainly want to hear any BPR release of the symphonies (preferably without the chocolate-box), but I hope you'll be able to buy one or two at a time!.

My references for No.6, by the way, would be Sanderling, Rattle with the CBSO, Berglund, and Vanska, which latter recording I listened to the other day, and very rewardingly too. (The BIS recording puts most of the rest to shame).
But a constant irritant for me is the tempo for the finale, which I often feel is too quick. All that gabbling repetition! Then the too-obvious contrast with the coda. Many conductors bring it in at well under 10'00 (including Vanska...) but Berglund takes 11'31 in Bournemouth, and very beneficially; Rattle and the CBSO, 10'25; Kamu did this too, in a little-known live Tokyo/Helsinki PO reading on TDK. This latest Berlin reading seemed similar, though I didn't time it.
Similarly with the 7th, it was nice to hear the quicker sections played so lightly, without hurry and with a lovely rhythmical lift. If these feel rushed it can seem as if the conductor is impatient to return to grand, solemn statements (out of place in this music anyway). Tempi do seem crucial in these last two symphonies.

[retroman]

I seem to have a physiological aversion to 256 kpbs, but despite the music always seeming too sensuously or emotionally detached at this level, I pressed on.
The performance made more sense in the Philharmonie; the balance, the fullness, the Berlin Sound (at least as mediated by Rattle) came together in a way lost to the Barbican relays (even at 320).

My DAT having played up on the last night of the three, I streamed the HD to my Sadie. Do people really put up with this? Did anybody record FM to digital on the night?

[pastoralguy]

According to the April Edition of Gramophone, the Berliner Philharmoniker's Sibelius cycle under Sir Simon was recorded live at the Philharmonie for release on the orchestra's own label. (Which means it'll be blooming expensive...!)

[Beef Oven!]

According to the April Edition of Gramophone, the Berliner Philharmoniker's Sibelius cycle under Sir Simon was recorded live at the Philharmonie for release on the orchestra's own label. (Which means it'll be blooming expensive...!)

Thanks for the heads-up pastoralguy.

Do you know the going rate for BPO orchestra's CDs?

[Bryn]

Thanks for the heads-up pastoralguy.

Do you know the going rate for BPO orchestra's CDs?

This should give you some idea. Though the items there are a mix of their own label (which seem to each include a Blu-ray version) and DG issues.

[pastoralguy]

Thanks for the heads-up pastoralguy.

Do you know the going rate for BPO orchestra's CDs?

Our local independent cd shop has Sir Simon's and the Berliner's Schumann cds for about £44.00. I'm not a great Schumann fan so I've not lusted after them but I assume it's two discs. Seems pretty expensive to me.

Just checked Amazon. £42.90. And no second hand or cheapie stores yet. Seems the orchestra intend to aim at the well heeled record collector.

[jayne lee wilson]

The BPR Schumann set includes 2 CDs, a Blu-Ray disc including 24/96 PCM & HD video recordings, and a code for 24/192 download. Oh, and a 7-day DCH ticket too...
But I was put off by the sound of online excerpts and didn't bother, highly affected as I was by Ticciati and especially Nezet-Seguin...

So perhaps a realistic groan about Sibelius from the same source... one for online sampling and careful review-reading - though it will come down as much to who reviews them as to their comments...


But then I've recently been much taken with Japanese Sibelius issues of Sanderling/Berlin SO (Denon & King Record, stunning) and Berglund's Bournemouth SO set (single EMI Japan/Toshiba issues, last of a noble line etc....); and then Berglund with the COE (Finlandia) - a very underrated, compellingly radical presentation. After those marvels, Sibelius from the Philharmonie doesn't get the pulse racing much...

[Beef Oven!]

Our local independent cd shop has Sir Simon's and the Berliner's Schumann cds for about £44.00. I'm not a great Schumann fan so I've not lusted after them but I assume it's two discs. Seems pretty expensive to me.

Just checked Amazon. £42.90. And no second hand or cheapie stores yet. Seems the orchestra intend to aim at the well heeled record collector.

Cheers. The price will have to go easy before I indulge.

[Petrushka]

Cheers. The price will have to go easy before I indulge.

And there is the oblong box which presents storage problems. I've seen the box in Foyles, forget the price but wasn't tempted. Can't help thinking that the BPO are taking a bit of a gamble in targeting the well-heeled collector in these times of austerity. Music lovers can be paupers as well as princes.

[jayne lee wilson]

Meant to add - you can get the download-only BPR Schumann Cycle from Qobuz, £22.79 for 24/192 or £15.19 for 16/44.1...but none are available separately (not even a single movement, which is often very usefully offered...). I'd expect the same approach for the Sibelius...