Berlin Philharmonic / Simon Rattle / Sibelius cycle / Barbican R3 live 10-12/02/15

[teamsaint]

I did not listen at the time of broadcast but was most disturbed to fine the 'HD Sound' version, of at least the Fifth, seriously compromised by glitches, a whole series of which are heard at the start of the symphony. Can anyone here who listened to, or perhaps recorded, the FM or DAB versions comment on whether or not they suffered similarly?

I listened to the 5th live on DAB, and there were some odd noises,I thought at the time there were two cracks in the horns very early on, (rather surprising !) but perhaps they were glitches.

I pumped the volume up a bit, ( on a Marantz MCR610) and the sound was all a bit ordinary, to my non tech ears.

[johnb]

Until last night I felt the basses were too prominent and the brass/woodwinds not prominent enough. I even felt that the clarity and transparency of each group of instruments worked against symphonic unity with each group sounding separate and episodic. Judging by the five-star reviews here and elsewhere my critical faculties have obviously reached a new low - or perhaps only ever existed in my imagination. Ho hum.

Last night I started to catch up with the concerts, starting with Tuesday's Sibelius 1 and 2. I had no problem with the level of the basses and the lower frequencies but, at least on my set up, the sound quality of the basses and the lower frequencies in general was very muddy and ill defined - frustratingly so.

I recognise what you say about the clarity and prominence of various instruments or instrumental groups (sometimes they almost seemed to have been spotlit) but that didn't really detract from my enjoyment of the concert. Perhaps the performances weren't as totally "idiomatic" as some we are used to but Rattle had obviously given the pieces a lot of thought and I found the concert refreshing and exciting.

[slarty]

I would suggest that the Barbican's acoustic has a lot to do with the general muddiness or lack of clarity in some instances, or the BBC engineers only started to get it right after the first concert.
I assume that there are two separate setups of BBC microphones, one for Radio and the other for the TV recording. I can't imagine the TV transmission will have that great bass sound, as not everyone can play the sound through the HiFi.
I was able to watch/listen to both the Berlin Cycle last week and to this week's Barbican series. Stylistically there was very little difference, but sonically there was a great deal more clarity from Berlin. The big lower string sound was equally evident in Berlin as in London, but in the former it did not impare the clarity.
I do love the sound, very Furtwänglarian , building from the bottom up.
Rattle has certainly changed a great deal from the Birmingham days in so far as the recent evidence of the Frankfurt Beethoven cycle is concerned.
The Berlin Philharmonic sound may not be fashionable to the Hip crowd, but it certainly gets my vote.

[Stanley Stewart]

I sometimes wonder whether Oberon's entreaty to the sleeping Titania in Act IV, MND: "Be as thou was wont to be; See as thou was wont to see..." is incomplete without, 'Hear as thou was wont to hear...' or whether the listener to programmes has the bonus of has an aural sensibility denied to the majority? Experience as a Thesp of 15 years taught me how to adjust, say, the opening scenes of a play - the crucial time for an audience to 'suspend judgement' and relax into the spirit of the production. If the elements outside are extreme; cold, stormy, windy, or even delays from traffic jams, the tendency would be to up the ante in terms of pace for the first few minutes in order to focus a higher degree of concentration or involvement from the audience. It usually worked.

In turn, I started listening to Martin Handley's intro to Sib 5, wondering whether it would match my favourite interpretation by the Swedish Radio S.O./Celibidache, also reflecting on the high standard of the recordings I've managed to get on modest equipment, via DAB, over the previous two evenings. The quality of the performances have been promulgated in the press and by other forumites but the standard of recording is quite the best I've heard in recent years. A subjective conclusion, of course, although it's also possible that my hearing may also have sharply improved in my dotage! I put the matter to the test by recording yesterday's (12 Feb) Lunchtime Concerts; cellist Gautier Capucon and pianist Yuja Wang playing two Cello Sonata's by Debussy and Rachmaninov - exquisite in performance and sound.

The evening broadcasts also especial for me as a I also attended Sir Simon's Sibelius symphonic cycle with the Philharmonia at the South Bank Summer Festival, circa 1982, several at the QEH. Of course, his ubiquitous presence at Birmingham, Liverpool, Scotland and Glyndebourne do addle the memory buds
but I also recall a vivid concert performance of Poulenc's La Voix humaine - a searing emotional truth from Elisabeth Soderstrom - coupled with my intro to Ravel's delicious L'Enfant et les sortileges, in the same season.

Managed to get a degree of semblance by consulting Nicholas Kenyon's, Simon Rattle - The Making of a Conductor (1987-faber & faber). I was aware that SR recorded a complete Sib symphonic cycle with the CBSO - still on my shelves - from the mid 80s onwards but also convinced that I'd attended the SB Summer Music Festival in which he conducted the Philharmonia. In the biography he -SR - added:
"We put together the Sibelius and we did it at Warwick over the weekend, and in London during the SB Summer Music. The last concert of that Festival was a landmark: three Sibelius symphonies, and a superb response from the press, public, everyone. That was when John Willan decided to do the Sibelius cycle for EMI with the CBSO rather than the Philharmonia, which was the original plan...

Quote from Paul Griffiths, The Times in the Kenyon biography...'One of the many odd things about Sibelius is that the better his music is performed, the more difficult it is to understand. Any number of conductors can show his Fifth Symphony as a triumph of heroism, his Sixth as Olympic games in fairyland, his Seventh as a long labouring colossally gratified. But these perhaps are the symphonies Sibelius wishes to write; the ones he composed are a great deal more enigmatic, as they appeared in the magnificent and important concert with which Simon Rattle brought his directorship of South Bank Summer Music to an end...Simply to play these last three symphonies together is a feat in itself, but when the CBSO have proved before that they thrive on such a challenge when Mr Rattle is conducting, and the audience on this occasion responded with mounting concentration."

History repeated itself during the past three nights. Memory raking also delivered the fist time I saw Simon Rattle conduct. Summer of 1976 - roasting hot - even the grass surrounding Sadler's Wells Theatre turned brown - I had 'comps' for a concert performance of The Threepenny Opera, with the London Sinfonietta and boyish 21 year old, Rattle, shared an on-stage platform, and they all wore contrasted frilly coloured shirts to add to the joy and gaiety of the occasion!

Did others here attend any of those evenings?

[HighlandDougie]

Symphony No.4 was - very different again; we heard three different orchestras tonight.
Tonal purity, restraint, simplicity of phrase; a tragic eloquence that spoke for itself. So, why comment further? Perhaps just to note that the first three movements were played almost as one vast slow movement, with the briefest of pauses before and after a quicker middle section. But the finale - urgent, sharply-defined, with sudden surges of power and intensity focussing the mood, was tonally and emotionally distinct - and bleakly conclusive.

(R3 HDs 320 kbps aac, via JRiver).

I've come very late to this party as I've been in Hong Kong. Just listened to the 4th to which my reaction was almost exactly like that of Jayne. Not entirely convinced by SR's interpretation as it was going along but then with the finale it all fell into place. "Bleakly conclusive" is a perfect description of what was a very special performance.

[gedsmk]

I would suggest that the Barbican's acoustic has a lot to do with the general muddiness or lack of clarity in some instances, or the BBC engineers only started to get it right after the first concert.
I assume that there are two separate setups of BBC microphones, one for Radio and the other for the TV recording. I can't imagine the TV transmission will have that great bass sound, as not everyone can play the sound through the HiFi.
I was able to watch/listen to both the Berlin Cycle last week and to this week's Barbican series. Stylistically there was very little difference, but sonically there was a great deal more clarity from Berlin. The big lower string sound was equally evident in Berlin as in London, but in the former it did not impare the clarity.
I do love the sound, very Furtwänglarian , building from the bottom up.
Rattle has certainly changed a great deal from the Birmingham days in so far as the recent evidence of the Frankfurt Beethoven cycle is concerned.
The Berlin Philharmonic sound may not be fashionable to the Hip crowd, but it certainly gets my vote.

Having now listened carefully to the 320Kpbs Listen Again I can see what you mean about lack of clarity in the bass, and I don't think it is my loudspeakers. Sitting in the balcony of the Barbican (where I have found the best acoustic since the refurb) I could hear even from there that there was a unique "core" resonance to the double basses (8 of them) that I hadn't heard since Lucerne played Bruckner's 5th (10 basses and 16 cellos) in the RFH under Abbado, or CBSO (I think 9 basses) playing Shostakovitch 7th under Nelsons in Birmingham, or Ravel Mother Goose in Boston under Rattle. Last night in the Barbican the orchestra (who clearly get very excited playing for Rattle in London) just went for it and the acoustic problems disappeared (from upstairs anyway).

I suppose it would be pointless to carp that the string sound was too rich and creamy for Sibelius - what do we expect them to do? Play badly? Not even Jansons could persuade the Concertgebouw to do that, so why bother? It was exhilarating and full of sounds I hadn't heard in a concert hall very often (bloom, resonance, double piannissimo, total ensemble, a crescendo Karajan might be proud of). If Rattle can persuade the powers that be to give the LSO the same working conditions (I am not referring to the hall) as the BPO then things could get really exciting!

[Beef Oven!]

Still might be down to equipment.

I listened to all three broadcasts through two systems, streamed through an Apple Airport. Main system was Naim Audio which is a highly revealing system with an extremely detailed treble, a very clear middle, and a dry controlled 'fast' bass. The other was Genelec active near-field studio monitors.

I found the broadcast clear and sharp, through treble, to deep bass.

[Petrushka]

Listening via Freeview through my Cambridge Azur 651A amplifier and trusty Wharfedales this was without doubt the best sound I've heard in a live concert broadcast quite possibly ever! The evening that featured that extraordinary 4th Symphony had the finest sound in my opinion. The bass was of a richness and the treble of a clarity I'd normally expect from CD though in order to obtain it I had to tip the volume up somewhat.

[Beef Oven!]

Listening via Freeview through my Cambridge Azur 651A amplifier and trusty Wharfedales this was without doubt the best sound I've heard in a live concert broadcast quite possibly ever! The evening that featured that extraordinary 4th Symphony had the finest sound in my opinion. The bass was of a richness and the treble of a clarity I'd normally expect from CD though in order to obtain it I had to tip the volume up somewhat.

Yes, I felt that it sounded better at a higher volume.

[pastoralguy]

Well, this is my first opportunity to write about my visit to the Barbican for the last of these three concerts devoted to the Sibelius symphonies. I've loved his music since my late Uncle Bob used to play the Karelia Suite on a 45rpm extended play single with the Danish Radio Symphony Orchestra conducted by Thomas Jenson when I was a young child. I followed this love up as a young teenager by listening to the symphonies in records by the SNO under the late, great Sir Alexander Gibson who did much to promote the great Finn's music. As gedsmk points out, Sibelius isn't a composer who benefits from huge, virtuoso orchestral string playing which, to be honest, suited the sound of SNO of the 60's and 70's whose string sound, in those days, was 'lean'.

Anyway, I've managed to experience this Berlin Phil./Rattle twice now. First in the live relays on the orchestra's Digital Concert Hall followed by the London concerts of which I heard two live on Radio3 and the last live at the Barbican last night. The cumulative effect for me has been a re-focusing of music that has somewhat slipped from my radar these last few busy years. This immersion has made me re-evaluate just how original it is and how each symphony is so different from its companions.

For me, one of the oddities of the cycle is how, half way through the cycle, there is this toughest of tough nuts to crack in the form of the fourth symphony. It took many listenings to develop an appreciation of this piece and I feel this is the one symphony that requires absolute top notch playing. Which leads me to Sir Simon and his wonderful, wonderful orchestra. What I enjoyed the most was the absolute sincerity of all involved. No, Sibelius isn't a 'core' composer for the Berlin Phil. but there was, to me, a sense of an orchestra following their principal conductor into comparatively uncharted water. (I suspect there are very few players from the days of Karajan's time still playing).

So, was it worth an 800 mile journey in 24 hours to hear them in a single concert? Absolutely!

I remember listening to Karajan's last London concert with the Berlin Philharmonic and wishing I could have been there and why hadn't I tried harder to be there? (This was pre-Internet days so the whole booking tickets and travel thing was much harder). I remember the announcer saying at the very end that members of the audience were running down to the front of the hall. "I've never seen that happen before and I don't think I'll ever see it again!" So I was determined I was going to be a part of this.

The whole experience was so personal that there seems little point in trying to write a critique especially since there are so many others more eloquent and knowledgable. Except that getting up at at 06.30 for an early train, doing a very brief tour of the sights (including Harrods!) before arriving at the Barbican for the concert before getting to Euston for the overnight sleeper back to Edinburgh. That was as much part of the experience as hearing the swan theme played by the mighty horn section or those amazing double basses or Rattle's heartfelt response to the ovation.

A wonderful experience!

[gedsmk]

The whole experience was so personal that there seems little point in trying to write a critique especially since there are so many others more eloquent and knowledgable. Except that getting up at at 06.30 for an early train, doing a very brief tour of the sights (including Harrods!) before arriving at the Barbican for the concert before getting to Euston for the overnight sleeper back to Edinburgh. That was as much part of the experience as hearing the swan theme played by the mighty horn section or those amazing double basses or Rattle's heartfelt response to the ovation.

A wonderful experience!

Lovely. I usually find this forum insightful and engaging but your post has confirmed my gratitude to be living in London and able to go to wonderful evenings like last night. So what if the acoustics of the RAH, RFH or Barb aren't a patch even on Basingstoke's Anvil, the experience completely transcends the acoustics. In Edinburgh you are blessed with the great Usher Hall so full marks to you for your passion and commitment.

[pastoralguy]

Lovely. I usually find this forum insightful and engaging but your post has confirmed my gratitude to be living in London and able to go to wonderful evenings like last night. So what if the acoustics of the RAH, RFH or Barb aren't a patch even on Basingstoke's Anvil, the experience completely transcends the acoustics. In Edinburgh you are blessed with the great Usher Hall so full marks to you for your passion and commitment.

Thank you, gedsmk.

[Petrushka]

Great post, PG, and so glad it lived up to your expectations. A mere 250 mile journey down for me tomorrow for the RFH Mahler 2, an overnight stay and back on Sunday but as you say, all part of the experience.

[antongould]

A wonderful post pastoralguy and so very, very glad you enjoyed it. Have only listened to 5 live yet but found it magnificent.....

[teamsaint]

Lovely post, PG, always good to hear from those in attendance, and for my money, the experience of an event is often so much more than just the performance, because that is often what stays with us in our memory most clearly.
Really glad you felt your effort was worth it.
The excitement of live music is something else, Isn't it ?


Lets hope the Sibelius- a -thon hasn't knackered them.... You need a bit in reserve for a resurrection, and we dont want the RFH crowd getting second best.