Berlin Philharmonic / Simon Rattle / Sibelius cycle / Barbican R3 live 10-12/02/15

[Barbirollians]

At the risk of echo-ing Beefy -- Wow ! too many felicities to mention, but I haven't before heard these symphonies played in a way which reveals so completely their creator's utter originality,or, conversely, relates Sibelius as closely to his great near-contemporaries Mahler & Bruckner (with which the BPO will naturally be more familiar) especially in the coda to the finale of no.1, where the tragic import was communicated more vividly than I can ever remember. Barkbrod-eating Finns might have found Rattle's passionate approach a bit OTT, but Sibelius is surely a great enough figure to survive the BPO's high-calorie rendition ?

I recommend the RPO/Barbirolli as another high cal sensational Sibelius 2

[Nick Armstrong]

high cal

Hi barb!

[Bryn]

I recommend the RPO/Barbirolli as another high cal sensational Sibelius 2

Surely everyone here with a high regard for Sibelius's music has that recording by now. If not, why not?

[jayne lee wilson]

Listening live via the HDs webstream as usual, and feeling a little at odds with the general enthusiasm here, I sought to check my live impressions against the iPlayer later, and played several movements over again.....

Second time out, I got on slightly better with this Sibelius 1st, but it still failed to lift my spirits much. As broadcast, the orchestra doesn't sound acoustically well-suited to the Barbican. It comes over a bit dry and thick, tonally rather monochrome and a little forced sometimes, the dark, rounded brass only adding to the heaviness of the texture...
Power and intensity, yes, in spades, but - at the start of the allegro I craved a sharper, clearer line in the strings, and more projection and character from the winds, who seemed much happier in the more cantabile, melodic passages (e.g. flutes after the finale's opening flourish) than those defined by chattering rhythms, which weren't always crisp enough for me. And so it went on...
Rattle's - and this orchestra's - view of the piece tonight seemed very rich and passionate, often with explicitly Romantic moulding of a phrase - and I felt overly episodic too, albeit with much beauty in the detail. All there in the notes (or the influences)? Perhaps, but personally I kept craving something leaner, icier, clearer-cut... a stronger sense of symphonic architecture might have better balanced the fullness of tone, focussing the reading more keenly.
(But Rattle did at least make vividly audible the many pedal-points and bass-lines, so significant a feature of No.1, grounding the dark and turbulent fantasies above...)

***
The Berliner Philharmoniker seemed more at ease in No.2 - is it simply because they've played it more often? (We've heard many comments about how they've only recently "accepted" Sibelius as a truly great composer, and I couldn't escape the impression that with No.1, they're still learning how to play him...)
So the 2nd flowed on, richly sonorous, grandly Tchaikovskian... but again I felt a lack of crispness and sparkle, or much cumulative structural energy, despite the grandeur of the climaxes; wished those winds would come to the surface of the tonal blend a little more.
The coda was quite a controlled peroration; yet the final chord was oddly equivocal, fading a little as it concluded.

But I confess to being out of love with Sibelius' 2nd just now; and to me, it always seemed to stand apart from the others, with only the first movement feeling truly Sibelian.

Perhaps Rattle was simply emphasising the more Romantic, excessive aspects of Nos. 1&2 to bring out their individual moods and sound world; I would hope for a very different tonal palette, more of a shaping symphonic spirit, in the later works...

Later that night... checking on something, I put on the finale of Sanderling's Berlin SO recording of No.1 from 1976. SUCH clarity, articulation, sureness of line and direction! Symphonic drama without a shred of affectation. An unfair or unwise comparison perhaps, but as a musical experience it put tonight's concert firmly in its place.

[Beef Oven!]

Listening live via the HDs webstream as usual, and feeling a little at odds with the general enthusiasm here, I sought to check my live impressions against the iPlayer later, and played several movements over again...

Second time out, I got on slightly better with this Sibelius 1st, but it still failed to lift my spirits much. As broadcast, the orchestra doesn't sound acoustically well-suited to the Barbican. It comes over a bit dry and thick, tonally rather monochrome and a little forced sometimes, the dark, rounded brass only adding to the heaviness of the texture...
Power and intensity, yes, in spades, but - at the start of the allegro I craved a sharper, clearer line in the strings, and more projection and character from the winds, who seemed much happier in the more cantabile, melodic passages (e.g. flutes after the finale's opening flourish) than those defined by chattering rhythms, which weren't always crisp enough for me. And so it went on...
Rattle's - and this orchestra's - view of the piece tonight seemed very rich and passionate, often with explicitly Romantic moulding of a phrase - and I felt overly episodic too, albeit with much beauty in the detail. All there in the notes (or the influences)? Perhaps, but personally I kept craving something leaner, icier, clearer-cut... a stronger sense of symphonic architecture might have better balanced the fullness of tone, focussing the reading more keenly.
(But Rattle did at least make vividly audible the many pedal-points and bass-lines, so significant a feature of No.1, grounding the dark and turbulent fantasies above...)

***
The Berliner Philharmoniker seemed more at ease in No.2 - is it simply because they've played it more often? (We've heard many comments about how they've only recently "accepted" Sibelius as a truly great composer, and I couldn't escape the impression that with No.1, they're still learning how to play him...)
So the 2nd flowed on, richly sonorous, grandly Tchaikovskian... but again I felt a lack of crispness and sparkle, or much cumulative structural energy, despite the grandeur of the climaxes; wished those winds would come to the surface of the tonal blend a little more.
The coda was quite a controlled peroration; yet the final chord was oddly equivocal, fading a little as it concluded.

But I confess to being out of love with Sibelius' 2nd just now; and to me, it always seemed to stand apart from the others, with only the first movement feeling truly Sibelian.

Perhaps Rattle was simply emphasising the more Romantic, excessive aspects of Nos. 1&2 to bring out their individual moods and sound world; I would hope for a very different tonal palette, more of a shaping symphonic spirit, in the later works...

Later that night... checking on something, I put on the finale of Sanderling's Berlin SO recording of No.1 from 1976. SUCH clarity, articulation, sureness of line and direction! Symphonic drama without a shred of affectation. An unfair or unwise comparison perhaps, but as a musical experience it put tonight's concert firmly in its place.

Just goes to show how subjective music is.

On the contrary, to use a cliche, I thought the orchestra moved flowingly through the music like a string quartet, presenting oodles and oodles of detail in the woodwind, strings, brass and everything else. Nothing dry and thick, and certainly not heavy - featherlight in many passages. Mellifluous not episodic, to my ears.

I did not ask myself any questions about 'symphonic architecture', 'a shaping symphonic spirit' or what counts as 'truly Sibelian'. Just as well, I'd have been stumped for answers!

I thought the sound of the orchestra was near-perfect. I got no sense of an orchestra in the wrong hall.

As I said, it's all highly subjective and completely in the ear and brain of the beholder.

[edashtav]

Listening live via the HDs webstream as usual, and feeling a little at odds with the general enthusiasm here, I sought to check my live impressions against the iPlayer later, and played several movements over again...

Second time out, I got on slightly better with this Sibelius 1st, but it still failed to lift my spirits much. As broadcast, the orchestra doesn't sound acoustically well-suited to the Barbican. It comes over a bit dry and thick, tonally rather monochrome and a little forced sometimes, the dark, rounded brass only adding to the heaviness of the texture... [...]

But I confess to being out of love with Sibelius' 2nd just now; and to me, it always seemed to stand apart from the others, with only the first movement feeling truly Sibelian.

Perhaps Rattle was simply emphasising the more Romantic, excessive aspects of Nos. 1&2 to bring out their individual moods and sound world; I would hope for a very different tonal palette, more of a shaping symphonic spirit, in the later works...

Later that night... checking on something, I put on the finale of Sanderling's Berlin SO recording of No.1 from 1976. SUCH clarity, articulation, sureness of line and direction! Symphonic drama without a shred of affectation. An unfair or unwise comparison perhaps, but as a musical experience it put tonight's concert firmly in its place.

Two points, Jayne. Have you not put the orchestra's cart full of players before the Barbican's horse? I've been to all too many concerts in the Barbican Hall, hearing home-bred orchestras, and thorough-bred big beasts such as the Concertgebouw, and I can assure you that the venue's leadenhall acoustics can lame the most virtuosic of bands. I liken playing in the Barbican to entering a handicapped horse-race, perhaps as the audience's favourite but weighed down by your "plumbum".

However, like you, I've fallen out of love with Sibelius' 2nd - and I think you've pin-pointed the reason. A time there was when no 1 was regarded as the non-Sibelian, neo Tchaikovskian sport amongst his oeuvre, but some putative Sibelian fingerprints (e.g. pedal-points) are more in evidence in no. 1 than in the succeeding symphony.

Full marks, once again, Jayne for your attention to detail and your determination to value what radio is offering.

[Stanfordian]

Just goes to show how subjective music is.

On the contrary, to use a cliche, I thought the orchestra moved flowingly through the music like a string quartet, presenting oodles and oodles of detail in the woodwind, strings, brass and everything else. Nothing dry and thick, and certainly not heavy - featherlight in many passages. Mellifluous not episodic, to my ears.

I did not ask myself any questions about 'symphonic architecture', 'a shaping symphonic spirit' or what counts as 'truly Siberian'. Just as well, I'd have been stumped for answers!

I thought the sound of the orchestra was near-perfect. I got no sense of an orchestra in the wrong hall.

As I said, it's all highly subjective and completely in the ear and brain of the beholder.

Hiya Beefy.

I agree with your take on the Rattle/Sibelius, performances I experienced as engaging and full of adventure. I hold the opinion that If you look hard enough it is always possible to find what one might perceive as faults based on comparison with say a favourite recording or deep seated viewpoint. Usually I find it is best to just sit back and enjoy. I know this orchestra well and they can play any type of music in any way they are asked. Personally I’ve never heard a better orchestra than the Berliner Philharmoniker. For some reason it was the Sibelius Third Symphony the orchestra never used to play as Karajan avoided it but it’s a different orchestra these days.

[Beef Oven!]

Hiya Beefy.

I agree with your take on the Rattle/Sibelius, performances I experienced as engaging and full of adventure. I hold the opinion that If you look hard enough it is always possible to find what one might perceive as faults based on comparison with say a favourite recording or deep seated viewpoint. Usually I find it is best to just sit back and enjoy. I know this orchestra well and they can play any type of music in any way they are asked. Personally I’ve never heard a better orchestra than the Berliner Philharmoniker. For some reason it was the Sibelius Third Symphony the orchestra never used to play as Karajan avoided it but it’s a different orchestras these days.

I find that whole Karajan 3 no-show really strange!

Looking forward to hearing it with the BPO and Simon Denis on the wireless tonight

[pastoralguy]

Tremendous performance of Sibelius from Sir Simon and Die Berliner Philharmoniker! Those basses..

[Petrushka]

I find that whole Karajan 3 no-show really strange!

Yes, so do I. Richard Osborne's biography mentions (page 703) that EMI were trying to get him to record it during his last years but, of course, he never did. Whether Karajan had doubts about the work or not isn't mentioned but one must assume that he did otherwise he would at least have performed it but he never did that either.

Must agree with PG about the basses in tonight's performance. Rarely have I heard such a rich bass sound coming via Radio 3 via Freeview.

[Nick Armstrong]

Good shout out for Ida Haendel from Sir Simon!

[Petrushka]

Good shout out for Ida Haendel from Sir Simon!

The truth is out: Pastoralguy and Sir Simon are one and the same!

[pastoralguy]

I'm sure I read that, until Sir Simon started conducting Sibelius 3, the Berlin Philharmonic didn't even have the parts in their library! They must be getting quite worn now...

I didn't realise that all the concerts were being televised.

[pastoralguy]

The truth is out: Pastoralguy and Sir Simon are one and the same!

Actually, our hair is quite similar. Alas, the resemblance ends there. If I really were Sir Simon I would now be doing a London residency featuring the symphonies of George Lloyd...

[Beef Oven!]

Yes, so do I. Richard Osborne's biography mentions (page 703) that EMI were trying to get him to record it during his last years but, of course, he never did. Whether Karajan had doubts about the work or not isn't mentioned but one must assume that he did otherwise he would at least have performed it but he never did that either.

Must agree with PG about the basses in tonight's performance. Rarely have I heard such a rich bass sound coming via Radio 3 via Freeview.

Thanks for the Osborne page reference.

Yes the basses, but yes yes yes the violin concerto