Lachenmann and Mahler, 14 Feb

[Nick Armstrong]

Fantastic review ts! Just had time to read before heading off up the Emirates! More fine choral singing in prospect!!

[EdgeleyRob]

Fantastic review ts! Just had time to read before heading off up the Emirates! More fine choral singing in prospect!!

Make sure you join in with 'Oh Santi Cazorla' to the tune of Bruckner 5.
You a gooner Cali ?

[jayne lee wilson]

Post #26,another marvellous review ts,a great read.
Thing is I can't listen to Mahler these days,although there have been times when I've listened to little else over the years.
Almost as if I can't breathe when listening,not a good description but I can't think of any other way to describe it.
Does anyone else experience this kind of falling out of love with a composer ?

Absolutely Edge, all the time, and like you I can't listen to Mahler now - but how often can you repeat experiences of such intensity? It seems that after I'd lived through Mahler in the concert hall once or twice (after decades of home listening), I'd exhausted the music for home listening too. For how long, I don't know...maybe till the next life.

I won't catch up on this concert, but thanks to ts and Edashtav for some fine descriptive analyses and evocations..."what oft was felt but ne'er so well expressed..."

[gedsmk]

Post #26,another marvellous review ts,a great read.
Thing is I can't listen to Mahler these days,although there have been times when I've listened to little else over the years.
Almost as if I can't breathe when listening,not a good description but I can't think of any other way to describe it.
Does anyone else experience this kind of falling out of love with a composer ?

That's easy. Never even made it to first base with Lachenmann.

As for the Mahler, a Different sound in this hall of course, compared to the Barbican. One extra DB compared to Sibelius 7, v much audible in the opening bars of the Mahler of course, but in tuttis it was as if they were playing only mf. That's still the trouble with this RFH - no bottom, literally.
I thought SR's concept and control worked v well, and the chorus was superb. Shame they didn't use the RFH organ (wrong A pitch perhaps?) but a fairly inconsequential electronic one, and so the final chords, with the added trumpets now on stage behind the double basses rather than off, had nothing to compete against and it didn't sound at all balanced. Perhaps on the wireless the engineers made a better job of it, though. Overall I think they sounded better in the Barbican.

[Petrushka]

I've heard Mahler 2 a fair few times in concert but most of them have been at the Albert Hall and if memory serves me correctly, the last time I heard it in the Royal Festival Hall was, astonishingly, on February 20 1989 with Klaus Tennstedt! Of the two, I'd prefer the Tennstedt which remains one of the greatest performances I've heard of anything, now happily confirmed by the recording.

Teamsaint has caught the atmosphere of this Rattle concert very well so I'll add a few comments. I took the precaution of listening to the Lachenmann on youTube on Friday night in order to prepare but half the enjoyment of listening to contemporary music is visual as well as aural and I greatly enjoyed watching the BPO and Rattle go through this. Lachenmann was in the hall to take the applause.

I was sitting in one of the boxes hovering right over those double basses so I've got no complaints whatever about the bass sound. The colossal climax to the first movement of the Mahler was beautifully prepared and floor shaking in its intensity. Teamsaint rightly points to the percussion crescendo in the finale and here the floor shook even more. Just when you thought it couldn't possibly get any louder or last any longer it did and carried on.

Not sure why Magdalena Kozena came on to sing Urlicht then disappeared. Both she and Kate Royal emerged again to sing their contributions with the chorus but I found it distracting. I remember when the singers came on with the conductor and stayed there.

Rattle saved the biggest of big guns for the blazing conclusion which duly took the roof off the Festival Hall. Recalling Tennstedt in 1989, though, he instructed the organist to play as loudly as possible and the effect was electric. A pity that Rattle couldn't use the Festival Hall organ but the substitute wasn't too bad in the circumstances.

A great performance? Yes, no question but I'm not sure that I'll be talking about it in 26 years time with the same kind of awe reserved for Tennstedt and the LPO.

[Flosshilde]

half the enjoyment of listening to contemporary music is visual as well as aural and I greatly enjoyed watching the BPO and Rattle go through this. Lachenmann was in the hall to take the applause.

It didn't do anything for me at home; the description of the piece suggested to me that it's appeal was visual as much as (or nearly) aural.

A pity that Rattle couldn't use the Festival Hall organ but the substitute wasn't too bad in the circumstances.

Why not? I thought it had recently been restored/renovated/refurbished at great expence & was now working?

[Petrushka]

Why not? I thought it had recently been restored/renovated/refurbished at great expence & was now working?

Pitch I would think.

[Nick Armstrong]

Make sure you join in with 'Oh Santi Cazorla' to the tune of Bruckner 5.
You a gooner Cali ?

See 'Round Ball Game', Rob!

[Roger Judd]

Can someone enlighten me? Why are some orchestras tuning to a sharper pitch? It must be hugely frustrating to the the RFH management to have spent vast sums having the fine organ brought back to top-class condition only to find that it can't be used in something so high profile as the Rattle/BPO/Mahler 2. The effect of a 'proper' organ in the finale cannot be replicated by an electronic substitute IMO. Not hearing it make the anticipated impact in the broadcast came as a considerable disappointment.
RJ

[Petrushka]

Aren't British orchestras tuned to a different pitch (and organs the same) from their foreign counterparts? It would be impossible to retune theorgan each time then back again.

Can't our orchestras retune permanently?

[LHC]

Aren't British orchestras tuned to a different pitch (and organs the same) from their foreign counterparts? It would be impossible to retune theorgan each time then back again.

Can't our orchestras retune permanently?

That's correct.

Most British and American orchestras use A = 440, which is the 'official' concert pitch (although the New York Philharmonic apparently use A = 442).

Most German and Austrian orchestras use A = 443. The Berliner Philharmoniker used to use A = 445, but now tune to A = 443. Several HIP ensembles use A = 415 as this is closer to the tuning that would have been used in the baroque period.

But I agree, it was a great shame that they used an electric organ for this concert rather than the Festival Hall Organ. I can still remember the physical impact of the organ's entry in the Tennstedt performance with the LPO; so loud was it that the floor seemed to be shaking.

[mercia]

forgive my stupidity but would it be physically IMPOSSIBLE for the BPO to tune itself to the pitch of the RFH organ, or simply UNDESIRABLE (for some reason) ?

a follow-up thought - if the BPO were performing a piano concerto in this country would they bring their own piano or have the local instrument retuned ?

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

forgive my stupidity but would it be physically IMPOSSIBLE for the BPO to tune itself to the pitch of the RFH organ, or simply UNDESIRABLE (for some reason) ?

I think, mercs, that the construction of Brass, Woodwind and tuned Percussion would cause difficulties - and not just for the BPO.

a follow-up thought - if the BPO were performing a piano concerto in this country would they bring their own piano or have the local instrument retuned ?

The latter - additionally, it would not be unknown for many of the soloists who would be invited to work with an orchestra the calibre of the BPO to bring their own piano.

[mercia]

it would not be unknown for many of the soloists who would be invited to work with an orchestra the calibre of the BPO to bring their own piano.

yes that occured to me, and in turn presumably their piano would have to be frequently retuned depending where in the world they were performing. I suppose the occasions when organ and orchestra play together are fairly few and far between

[Zucchini]

I suppose the occasions when organ and orchestra play together are fairly few and far between

Thank goodness.

"People play Mahler far too much. My worry is that Mahler is performed louder and louder to make a success. Any orchestra that wants a success goes on tour with a Mahler symphony. Mahler said, 'My time will come.' But I'm not sure how pleased he would have been." (Bernard Haitink to Tom Service 4yrs ago)