Celebrating Simon Rattle: 1995 Beethoven Symphony Cycle

[Nick Armstrong]

I stand by my comment that Tom Service's presentation of the Rattle Beethoven concerts was enthusiastic, knowledgeable and pitched about right.

But have you timed how quickly he jumped in? A tenner says it was way less than the "not unreasonable" Handley 24 seconds.

I'll try and time it myself later when I can make some noise (e.g. bellowing "Shut up, Service!!!!" )

[johnb]

From what I have observed, the length of time announcers have let the applause run on has mostly varied between and an abrupt 5 seconds and a still too short 12 seconds in recent years. Anything longer has been unusual. These days I don't listen to R3 as much so things might have changed.

From memory, the Rattle/Beethoven broadcasts had applause lasting between 15 and 24 seconds, which made a very welcome change.

[teamsaint]

Perhaps R3 take their lead from those in audiences who start bravo-ing about two bars before the end of thenperformance...

[Anna]

I've finally found details of the Simon Rattle TV schedule for next month
:
BBC Two documentary, Simon Rattle: The Making Of A Maestro, the first television biography of the British conductor for 15 years, charts Rattle’s career through the lens of new and archive footage and an in-depth interview with the maestro himself (Saturday 14 February). An extended version of Rattle’s interview will also be available on BBC Arts Online

BBC Radio 3 and BBC Four broadcast Rattle’s major London Residency with the Berliner Philharmoniker at the Barbican and Southbank Centre in February 2015. The Residency is showcased by BBC Radio 3’s Live in Concert (Tuesday 10, Wednesday 11, Thursday 12 & Saturday 14 February) and a BBC Four broadcast from the Barbican (Sunday 15 February) Additional content will also be available on BBC iPlayer.

[Bryn]

But have you timed how quickly he jumped in? A tenner says it was way less than the "not unreasonable" Handley 24 seconds.

I'll try and time it myself later when I can make some noise (e.g. bellowing "Shut up, Service!!!!" )

13 seconds for the 9th.

[johnb]

I've taken a quick look at the timings before TS jumped in:

19/1 Symph No 1: 18 secs
19/1 Symph No 3: 18 secs
20/1 Symph No 2: 15 secs
20/1 Leonore, Fidelio Overtures: 18 secs
21/1 Symph No 4: 19 secs
21/1 Symph No 5: 24 secs
22/1 Symph No 6: 20 secs (from the start of applause, excluding the short silence)
22/1 Symph No 7: 13 secs
23/1 Symph No 8: 16 secs
23/1 Symph No 9: 13 secs

It's curious that the 9th (together with the 7th) gets the shortest length of applause.

In a live relay I can imagine that the adrenalin of the occasion makes the presenter feel that they have to jump in instead of letting the listeners enjoy the applause and use those seconds as an opportunity to "come down" gradually, but these broadcasts were compiled in the studio.

[mercia]

BBC Radio 3 and BBC Four broadcast Rattle’s major London Residency with the Berliner Philharmoniker at the Barbican and Southbank Centre in February 2015. The Residency is showcased by BBC Radio 3’s Live in Concert (Tuesday 10, Wednesday 11, Thursday 12 & Saturday 14 February) and a BBC Four broadcast from the Barbican (Sunday 15 February) Additional content will also be available on BBC iPlayer.

(additional information) the BBC Four broadcast will be a televised version of the Thursday concert I think

http://www.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/latestnews/2015/simon-rattle

[Nick Armstrong]

I've taken a quick look at the timings before TS jumped in

johnb thanks for sparing me that task! I suppose I just about keep my tenner from #61... But I'm surprised it was in double figures - I have only heard 4 & 9 so far and I suppose the excellence of the performances plus my dread of Service combined to make it seem a shorter time before the intrusion.

[teamsaint]

johnb thanks for sparing me that task! I suppose I just about keep my tenner from #61... But I'm surprised it was in double figures - I have only heard 4 & 9 so far and I suppose the excellence of the performances plus my dread of Service combined to make it seem a shorter time before the intrusion.

You could just join in the applause and cheering , in the comfort of your own home, and drown him out that way?

I do...........

[jayne lee wilson]

continued from 42... life the universe & Rattle's Beethoven...

The 4th and 5th Symphonies in the Frankfurt Cycle seemed to belong together. Power and precision, extreme contrapuntal clarity, a chaste tonal beauty in the slow movements (and the string playing throughout). The 4th was, as I said, a stunning reading and not only for that amazing finale. The dialoguing of the string sections at the start of the adagio, the sweetness and delicacy of tone and phrase as the different string sections entered and withdrew; warmth, weight and clarity in the climaxes; all well out of the ordinary. Then the diamond-cut shaping and sheer energy - the focus - of the scherzo's theme, every stress perfectly placed and timed. You might think of other recordings you could apply these words to; oh, don't worry - you still need to hear this one! Your standards will be reset...

If I found the 5th less distinctive, that's not to say it lets the cycle down in any way; the clarity, beauty and power, the whiplash accents, the drive - these were all there. But since hearing the visceral, gunpowder keg heroics of, say JEG's live Carnegie 5th, and given the iconic overfamiliarity of the work itself, I feel the need for those older, gutty textures, AND a great conductor, of course, to make the work really live for me again. Still plenty of things to notice: the oboe solo near the 1st movement's end, lingered over expressively, the daring pause after it (but in the context of an athletic, clean-cut, rhetoric-free approach). Then the choice of repeats: none in the scherzo, but made in the finale! Usually the one goes with the other...

Service & Skelly, discussing No.5 in the studio, DID seem to have experienced a greater, wilder power and sweep which I missed at home. I'd love to know what they were listening to - the equipment, yes, but especially the recordings - 16 or 20-bit DAT perhaps? It could have made the difference.. or perhaps I need to play it again even louder!

Then the Pastoral: completely different! Very ma non troppo in the 1st movement with a serene, gentle bounce, (bassoon solo so vivid in the development), but more urgent tempo at the recap, then slowing for the brief glow of the coda. Warm, hushed and withdrawn by the brook, with very individualised Bird cadenzas; unendliche melodie, the world seemed to fall asleep at its end...
For me this reading emphasised the Romantic, tone-painting evocations of the piece; the Storm was wild and vivid, but still felt classically-proportioned.
And what a profound, hushed serenity as the finale's theme emerged, almost vibrato-free (I nodded slowly, blinking away tears)... the movement remaining mild-voiced and dynamically-restrained until the last climax; then a tender, beatific sotto voce withdrawal in the codetta, wondrous purity and delicacy from those strings again...

[Petrushka]

Many thanks for his fantastic review , JLW . I find writing about the music I've heard extremely difficult (which is why I rarely attempt it) but this is effortlessly beautiful writing fully worthy of the music itself. I immediately want to reach for the disc I made off-air and play it again right now (but will have to wait for another day, I'm afraid).

[Nick Armstrong]

Can't find the "Rattle for the LSO?" thread though I'm sure there is one ("LSO" is too short a word to search for in thread titles, apparently ) so might as well link this here:

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/classical/features/will-simon-rattle-take-over-at-the-lso-10006409.html

[muzzer]

I can't see a new hall being built for him, however desirable. Would take years, even if the political will was there. What do we think he'll push for?

[LHC]

I can't see a new hall being built for him, however desirable. Would take years, even if the political will was there. What do we think he'll push for?

I think that the plans for the new arts quarter in the Olympic park in Stratford were originally going to include a new concert hall for the LSO. However, when the plans for 'Olympicopolis' (dreadful name) were announced, the concert hall had disappeared and the V&A and Sadlers Wells were the only arts organisations included in the announcement.

If Rattle could attract additional funding, its possible that a new concert hall could be added back into the plans.

[EnemyoftheStoat]

I think that the plans for the new arts quarter in the Olympic park in Stratford were originally going to include a new concert hall for the LSO. However, when the plans for 'Olympicopolis' (dreadful name) were announced, the concert hall had disappeared and the V&A and Sadlers Wells were the only arts organisations included in the announcement.

If Rattle could attract additional funding, its possible that a new concert hall could be added back into the plans.

Difficult to see how an LSO concert hall that far east would have worked, given that it's basically the City/Corporation of London's pet band.