25/9/14 - BBC SSO Shostakovich 10

[amateur51]

It turns out that the SB orchestra dropped Youth from its title in 2011, when it was felt that too many of its players were getting on a bit, apparently it's mantle has now passed to the Teresa Carreno Youth Orchestra which on the evidence of this clip is hugely talented but big paunch and bald-head free! https://www.ted.com/talks/astonishin...th_orchestra_1

The Proms performance in question was given in 2007. This clip is only 4 minutes long I grant you but not a paunch or bald head in sight

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ZbJOE9zNjw

Might it be that our correspondent caught sight of his reflection in the polished sideboard

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

The Proms performance in question was given in 2007. This clip is only 4 minutes long I grant you but not a paunch or bald head in sight

The whole performance is here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKXQzs6Y5BY

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

And I think it does matter, even if not for God's sake. HS' eagerness to share his opinions on the appropriate repertoire for Youth Orchestras leads him to overlook basic facts. He has confused the Simon Bolivar Youth Orchestra with tha Simon Bolivar Orchestra (a professional orchestra made up of former members of the Youth Orchestra and some of their teachers) before and his mistake was corrected then, too. The video of the Shostakovich Tenth refutes his anecdotal "evidence" eloquently, as does the recording of The Rite of Spring that the NYOGB made with Rattle over thirty years ago.

[Nick Armstrong]

NB Dudamel's Simon Bolivar orchestra was not a youth orchestra.... big paunches.

Ok there were some big lads and they visibly don't drink milk the whole time but that doesn't mean they weren't youths!

[amateur51]

Ok there were some big lads and they visibly don't drink milk the whole time but that doesn't mean they weren't youths!

Great pic Cali

Certainly in the clip I selected the entire brass section appeared paunch-free & youthful ... and making a terrific racket

[Hornspieler]

And I think it does matter, even if not for God's sake. HS' eagerness to share his opinions on the appropriate repertoire for Youth Orchestras leads him to overlook basic facts. He has confused the Simon Bolivar Youth Orchestra with tha Simon Bolivar Orchestra (a professional orchestra made up of former members of the Youth Orchestra and some of their teachers) before and his mistake was corrected then, too. The video of the Shostakovich Tenth refutes his anecdotal "evidence" eloquently, as does the recording of The Rite of Spring that the NYOGB made with Rattle over thirty years ago.

Well I've said my piece, given reasons for not encouraging youth orchestras to go beyond their limitations and so I'm out of here.

Get on with it.

HS

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Well, for those of us still here, reminiscences are not "reasons": the Proms performance demonstrates that the SBYO were not "encouraged to go beyond their limitations", nor were the NYOGB when they performed The Rite of Spring. Evidence shows the falsity of HS's claims.


Time has moved on: these days, even a regional County Youth Orchestra, performing at the limits of their technique can make a bloody good stab at The Rite:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=913_V_cDJ0I

[Hornspieler]

Well, for those of us still here, reminiscences are not "reasons": the Proms performance demonstrates that the SBYO were not "encouraged to go beyond their limitations", nor were the NYOGB when they performed The Rite of Spring. Evidence shows the falsity of HS's claims.


Time has moved on: these days, even a regional County Youth Orchestra, performing at the limits of their technique can make a bloody good stab at The Rite:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=913_V_cDJ0I

Okay, so I've had enough.

I have given my reasons for not recommending youth orchestras to air their performances to a paying public.

So I'm going to leave all the bickering and insults to the Armchair Experts who obviously know more than I do about professional music making.

Hornspieler

If anyone wishes to contact me, I can be reached by email:

hornspieler@virginmedia.com

[ahinton]

Pouring likewarm water on an orchestra that, by definition, never has sufficient time to develop itself with the same personnel or a longstanding principal conductor yet which has contrived successfully to essay Schönberg's Gurrelieder and Messiaen's Turangalîla-Symphonie and on another occasion performed the original version of Varèse's Amériques and Le Sacre along with some Gershwin in the same concert - to say nothing of other outstsandingly well met challenges on its part - is something that anyone would do only at his/her peril. Why would the many distinguished conductors who have leapt at the opportunity to work with NYOGB have chosen to do so?

HS writes that he had "said (his) piece (and) given reasons for not encouraging youth orchestras to go beyond their limitations" without either identifying what those limitations are cognisance of the fact that limitations can only be exceeded by trying. Nuff said.

I have to admit that the Dudamel SBYO Shostakovich 10 Prom somewhat underwhelmed me - or at least would have done had I been ignorant of the circumstances; I found some of it rather wooden and effortful. That said, for an orchestra like that to get as much out of a piece on such a scale that was so culturally foreign to them as they did at that Prom can only invite encouragement and praise, as far as I am concerned.

[ahinton]

So I'm going to leave all the bickering and insults to the Armchair Experts who obviously know more than I do about professional music making.

I am far from alone in being here not to bicker, but I have to respond that it is the sheer extent of your knowledge and long-term experience of professional music making that makes some of your more disparaging remarks about youth orchestras so surprising and dismaying.

[BBMmk2]

I thought this was about the BBCSSO's concert?

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I thought this was about the BBCSSO's concert?

Oh! That was ages ago, Bbm: it hasn't been mentioned since about post #6!

[teamsaint]

I wonder if the current " ten pieces" programme adds the rider, " but don't try to join in until you are professional standard"?

And to add to BBms post, anybody listened to the Scriabin?
I had a listen to another version the other day, and again found it a thoroughly enjoyable experience.

[BBMmk2]

Oh! That was ages ago, Bbm: it hasn't been mentioned since about post #6!

That's the trouble when on holiday!! I forgot I had Ashkenazy's Scriabin PC recording on Decca, when trawling through my ipod!

[RobertLeDiable]

Perhaps I'll have another go.

Incidentally, the broadcast last night was of the Glasgow performance; the Edinburgh one tonight is being recorded for broadcast at a future date. A bit odd, I thought - surely it would be cheaper to record the Glasgow one while it's being broadcast, especially as the City Hall is effectively a BBC Studio & presumably has the neccessary equipment permanently installed?

Think about it, flosshilde: Radio 3 has live relays most nights. They're juggling, probably, many possibilities and quite possibly, for one reason or another, it suited them better to take the Glasgow concert live on the Thursday night because there was something else they wanted to braodcast live on the Friday. Also, there may well be added costs in the hire of digital phone circuits to Broadcasting House from the the Usher Hall (for a live relay) whereas, as you say, those facilities will be built in to Glasgow City Hall.