Bernard Haitink and COE on Thursday 5th June at 7.30

[Bryn]

Kennedy certainly has the Berg concerto in his repertoire, if the reports of him performing it while dressed up as Dracula at the BBC Symphony’s 60th-anniversary concert are to be believed.

from The Grauniad:

Mr Kennedy recalled Sir John[Drummond]'s "pompous tirades" and recounts a performance of the Berg violin concerto, a work concerned with death, for which he wore a black cape.

"I was possibly a little paler than usual and the deep red mark on my neck (a painful condition that most violinists who practise several hours a day suffer from) was also noticeable. Drummond took the opportunity to fume publicly over my vampire-like appearance. I never did learn what he thought of my performance or the depth of his own knowledge of the Berg."

[Nick Armstrong]

Berg's VC was one of the set works I had the good fortune to study for A-level, so I've been able to live with it for a long time, marvelling at each encounter how the intense lyricism of what one hears is underpinned by such complexity of serialism, folk song, numerology (the numbers 10 and 23), the initials AB and those of his mistress...

That is the most enticing analysis of the piece I've ever encountered! Thanks.... How is one to unravel the serialism/folksong/numerological aspects, even with a score?

On reflecting further, the thought strikes me that it's therefore as if the Berg VC is in a language I haven't learned. Rather like listening to a novella read to me in German - I'd recognise the odd word and even quotation (for instance, if it included the words of a Mahler song in German, which I would know off by heart) and broadly 'get' the thrust of it - but the detail would wholly escape me. Learning the language and then hearing and living with the thing must undoubtedly be rewarding... but... there's a lot of other music written in languages I do understand...

[Belgrove]

On reflecting further, the thought strikes me that it's therefore as if the Berg VC is in a language I haven't learned. Rather like listening to a novella read to me in German - I'd recognise the odd word and even quotation (for instance, if it included the words of a Mahler song in German, which I would know off by heart) and broadly 'get' the thrust of it - but the detail would wholly escape me. Learning the language and then hearing and living with the thing must undoubtedly be rewarding... but... there's a lot of other music written in languages I do understand...

Quite a nice note on the piece, which explains the numerology to which Keraulophone alluded to:

http://industry.rachelbartonpine.com/rep_notes_view.php?id=2

I thought that it was a gorgeous performance last evening, the first time I have heard Haitink conduct Berg. Just imagine what his Lulu could have been like? Also enjoyed the Beethoven.

[pastoralguy]

I listened and, on the whole, enjoyed it. I was a little disappointed by the Schumann which I also thought was a little flaccid. However, I suspect the recording didn't help as it sounded, to me, a little opaque. The Berg was super and whilst it's not in my top ten of favourite concertos I thought it was a very fine performance. (I too studied it as a 'set work' at university).

As for the 'Pastoral', well I thought it was a very fine performance with superb pacing and no getting bogged down in the second movement. I've always felt this is the most difficult of the nine for a conductor to bring off as, IMHO, it can easily sound trite. No problems here.

[mopsus]

About 10 years ago R3 had an occasional series called 'Masterworks' or similar, which was in the 7.30 evening slot and studied a piece in detail for about 90 minutes. I was sorry to miss the episode on Berg's violin concerto and if anyone happens to still have a recording of this programme I would love to hear it.

I heard the piece first when I was 17 and was immediately smitten by it. I certainly find passages rattling around in my head and think I would now recognise it instantly from the smallest possible extract.

Perlman's recording was recommended by the Penguin CD Guide but I find it unmoving. Menuhin championed the concerto when it was still quite a new piece.

[Richard Barrett]

On reflecting further, the thought strikes me that it's therefore as if the Berg VC is in a language I haven't learned.

I know it's just a metaphor you're using, but IMO the idea that music is (or is like) a language is one that I think often forms an obstacle between music and listeners. In particular, people often seem to think that understanding music is much more akin to understanding language than it actually is. Iannis Xenakis: "Music is not a language. Every musical piece is like a complex rock, formed by ridges and designs engraved within and without, that can be interpreted in a thousand different ways without a single one being the best or the most true."

[Barbirollians]

I should always recommend the Kyung Wha Chung/Solti record of the Berg to anyone who struggles with it . She seems to make sense of it all to me and there is much less gritty playing than in many other performances.

[Richard Barrett]

Earlier on I was listening to Berg's violin concerto played by Thomas Zehetmair and the Philharmonia with Heinz Holliger conducting, which has been my most-played recording in recent years, but I think it might well be replaced by Isabelle Faust's recently-released recording with Abbado.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I know it's just a metaphor you're using, but IMO the idea that music is (or is like) a language is one that I think often forms an obstacle between music and listeners. In particular, people often seem to think that understanding music is much more akin to understanding language than it actually is. Iannis Xenakis: "Music is not a language. Every musical piece is like a complex rock, formed by ridges and designs engraved within and without, that can be interpreted in a thousand different ways without a single one being the best or the most true."

The Xenakis quotation is brillant (as always with him) - but I read Caliban's comment as having less to do with the Music as such, and more to do with his inability to "connect" with it: a way of exploring what it is about the Berg that he doesn't get that others very clearly do. (Not "it's in a foreign language", but "it's as if it's in a foreign language"; a subtle but important difference in intent.) Xenakis' rock simile gives insights into the possibilities of Music, but it doesn't help Cali to express or explore what his difficulty with the Berg Violin Concerto might be.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Thinking about it further - I think Xenakis' comment ("a complex rock, formed by ridges and designs engraved within and without, that can be interpreted in a thousand different ways without a single one being the best or most true") is equally applicable to works of literature. He's perhaps not so much discouraging the metaphor as warning against using it too prosaically?

(Richrd - I believe you knew him: can this suggestion go anywhere or should I get out more?)

[Richard Barrett]

(Not "it's in a foreign language", but "it's as if it's in a foreign language"; a subtle but important difference in intent.)

Yes, as I said, I was aware that he was being metaphorical but I thought it might be worth making a somewhat tangential point about it. As for Xenakis, when he said "music is not a language" I don't think there's much room for speculation about what he may or may not have meant!

[teamsaint]

Don't know if this has anything about the VC. might be worth a watch.
missing the last 8 minutes, which I guess might cover the concerto.

Question: does the Berg get programmed too frequently, in comparison with or to the detriment of other 2VS or Post 2VS works?

I understand that it fits concerts programmes well, with its length, forces required etc,which helps its cause.




.

[Stanley Stewart]

That is the most enticing analysis of the piece I've ever encountered! Thanks.... How is one to unravel the serialism/folksong/numerological aspects, even with a score?

The solution you seek, Cali, could have been instantly resolved by a repeat screening of The Masterworks documentary, recorded on video off-air on BBC 2, 2 February 2002, and transferred on this dreich day to DVD. Complete performance of the Berg Violin Concerto, recorded at Brixton Academy: BBC SO/Andrew Davis with soloist Leonidas Kavakos, followed after a 45 mins documentary in which Sir Andrew and soloist made substantial comments about the work in interview with Michael Berkeley, along with orchestral contributors and Berg biographical writers, Anthony Pople in particular. Succinct comments on, say, the significance of 12- tone music added enlightenment to non-muscians like myself. And Berg's real or imagined relationship with women was discussed alongside his deep interest in numerology, 10, 28 and 23, in particular, explained with illustrated examples. Berkeley's father, Leonard, along with Britten, also attended the premiere performance of the Violin Concerto and we heard examples of how their interest in folksong was inspired by the work. The influence of Manon Gropius was, of course, central to the discussion. Berg firmly believed that the great pain of life is overriden by the reality of spiritual beauty. The relaxed and fascinating discussion at the piano rehearsals between all concerned - and the sumptuous Viennese locations - did much to inform, enlighten and entertain. Michael Berkeley concluded that Berg (1885-1935) was also writing about his own fragile hold on life. He died of blood poisoning after an insect bite on his back, on 24 Dec 1935.

On reflection, perhaps my personal gain here was a fresh understanding on the influence of sinuous music seemingly emerging out of a mist into the light. Time to think on!

A repeat screening of the splendid Masterworks series is now long overdue. I've completed the DVD with a performance of DSCH 5, BBC SO/Valery Gergiev, BBC 2, 9 Feb 2002, following a detailed analysis of the work.