C P E Bach St John Passion (1784)

[Roehre]

You know.. the usual whitewash as follows:
" if CPE Bach had heard a Steinway/ Bechstein/ Yamaha/ Fazioli / Chickering / Broadwood etc he would have been delighted"

And what's wrong with that ?

[Daniel]

It is a mystery to me why solo singing such as we heard in Morgengesang am Schöpfungsfeste gets approved by whoever needs to do the approving. The music, which I didn't know, really pulled me in, but the vocal delivery kept pushing me out again.
I'm not sure whether Karabits think it's perfectly good/acceptable, or if he's in a situation where he has to use singers whether he likes it or not? I don't wish to exaggerate, they clearly can sing, but not in a way I enjoy at all ( a lot of vibrato, erratic intonation) I just can't enjoy music when I hear it sung like this (some highly dramatic stuff excepted). But perhaps there are lots of people who enjoy it or who at least are not bothered by it, and I am hearing it with misguided expectations. It remains a genuine mystery to me.

Absolutely none of this applies to Robin Tritschler who seemed to alight on notes perfectly and very expressively in the St John Passion. Like others I found there to be a lot of recitative in this music for my non penitential ears, and the piece didn't enthuse me quite in the way that some of his other music has.

[Jamiewhall]

The BSO is not a specialist EM group, of course, and given that fact I think Karabits did a good job with their reduced forces. In fact, I wonder if he 'did a Norrington' and discouraged vibrato? Likewise the BBCS...not my favourite group for EM...but he got them as well disciplined as they could be, i.e. no overblown singing.

The St John Passion itself is pretty much the sort of piece expected of a kappelmeister, so comparisons with JSB's is pointless. There was one vg bass aria (was it Jimmy singing?) which was a cut above the rest, and obviously one of the genuine CPEB bits.

I really enjoyed Karabits' interval talk about the 'discovery' of the piece, especially his finding a 90-year-old German woman in a home who knew how to read the now defunct calligraphic [probably the wrong word] text.

I'm delighted to have been mistaken for a Jimmy, Ardcarp!
Not convinced he'd feel the same though.

[doversoul1]

Posted by pegleg (#10)

I'm not sure about the claims being made or the exact nature of this piece in terms of C P E Bach's actual input

I have no idea how programming works at BBC/Radio3 but I wonder if they overplayed ‘the UK premiere of CPE Bach's St John Passion’. From IGI’s review (#12) and now The Gordian’s review, it (CPE’s input) doesn’t seem to be very much.

http://www.theguardian.com/music/2014/apr/18/st-john-passion-review

During his years as director of music in Hamburg, Bach produced 21 passion settings. Strictly speaking they are compilations rather than compositions, with only a portion of each score freshly composed. His 1784 John Passion derives from one Telemann (his predecessor in Hamburg) composed almost 40 years earlier; that provides the evangelist's narratives and the chorales, with Bach adding some arias and choruses of his own, either brand new or arranged from existing pieces.

Modern-day premiere of a work of early music is nothing unique but I assume that a lot of research goes into each case before the actual performance or recording takes place. I am surprised that Karabits has got away with asking someone (not even a specialist) to read the manuscript. Even students aren’t allowed to use materials they can’t read for the base of their research.

I have nothing against Karabits performing the work but I do regret the BBC’s decision to programme this work for a concert that was advertised as ‘part of the 300th anniversary celebrations of the birth of the composer’. I imagine this concert/broadcast was the first opportunity for many people to hear a substantial work by CPE Bach. A work that is not much more than serviceable, and not even an entirely original composition is really not the best introduction to this very individual and forward looking composer’s music.

Again, I agree with pegleg:

Personally, I feel C P E Bach's work deserves better

[ardcarp]

I'm delighted to have been mistaken for a Jimmy, Ardcarp!
Not convinced he'd feel the same though.

Well done Jamie (and sorry about the mis-identification). Your aria was the highlight for me!

a.

[jean]

...I am surprised that Karabits has got away with asking someone (not even a specialist) to read the manuscript...

It was only a question of having this handwriting explained to him (when I started German at school, we were taught it as a curiosity, but soon lapsed into something more modern).

[Jamiewhall]

Well done Jamie (and sorry about the mis-identification). Your aria was the highlight for me!

a.

Thanks. I certainly enjoyed it!

[doversoul1]

It was only a question of having this handwriting explained to him (when I started German at school, we were taught it as a curiosity, but soon lapsed into something more modern).

Many thanks for clarifying the matter, jean.