BBC Young Musician 2014

[Mary Chambers]

Mozart was a viola player, as were Britten, Dvorak and Hindemith among others. Nothing wrong with the viola.

[Ariosto]

Back in Message 18, I asked if you are a professional violinist. (It was a polite question, by the way - not cynical or antagonistic - just interested) So evidently you're not a viola player. So are you a professional violinist ? Just interested.

Do you work with young musicians ?

"Ariosto,
You write:
"I agree with Mary that the presentation was still pretty poor. For me there was only one "winner" (how I hate that word). I was impressed with the harpist but out of the fiddlers there was only one that had promise, and that was the young lady from S. Korea. The winner was in my judgement the worst of the bunch, by a hell of a long way! "

There must be something seriously wrong about auditions for the National Youth Orchestra if, for example, Roberto Ruisi (leader NYO, I believe)shows no promise. Are you a professional violinist, perhaps ? In what respect was William Dutton (the winner of this category) "the worst of the bunch, by a hell of a long way".

If you hate the word (and concept, presumably) "winner", why pay any attention to BBCYM ? I'd agree with you that Dogyung Anna Im demonstrated great promise and musicality and I thought it was interesting that her teacher at Millfield said that she needed to be in the company of a wider range of highly talented musicians.

I also found it interesting that the three talented Ruisi brothers came from a non-musical family; Juliana (harp) also seemed to come from a pretty ordinary housing estate in Herts.

As for encouraging excellence in far too narrow a range of activities, in my experience as a teacher, talented musicians very frequently have a wide range of interests and other talents - sporting, linguistic, dance, skiing, athletic, culinary etc. They have enormous "stickability" and passion."

All the above is a quote in fact from Oldcrofter.

First of all, my apologies, as I completely missed your post. Very remiss of me I know.

I no longer work with young musicians although I have some access to them because my wife does. However to try and answer your points:

"There must be something seriously wrong about auditions for the National Youth Orchestra if, for example, Roberto Ruisi (leader NYO, I believe)shows no promise. Are you a professional violinist, perhaps ? In what respect was William Dutton (the winner of this category) "the worst of the bunch, by a hell of a long way"

... I did not in fact say that any of them showed no promise. Yes, he's leading the NYO and that is great but we are talking a competition here and even if you and I don"t like it, they are being compared with each other. I can"t comment on NYO auditions as I have no idea how these are conducted these days. I used to know a past Director so I had some idea then, but it was along time ago, more than 20 years in fact.

I've been a professional violinist and viola player for my sins, but i would rathet not go into that, and forget about it in fact. Don't count it, because it means nothing.

William Dutton, although he may make it eventually was in my opinion the worst of the bunch. But of course this is only in comparison to the others. Compared to some he would be very good. But i just felt he was not good enough compared against at least two of the others. (This has been enlarged on by a friend who phoned me today and was even more angry by the result. He is a very experienced player who has worked with just about everybody and now teaches young players some of whom go on to the RAM, R College and Guildhall).

But who cares, we are just a bunch of old has beens.

"If you hate the word (and concept, presumably) "winner", why pay any attention to BBCYM ? I'd agree with you that Dogyung Anna Im demonstrated great promise and musicality and I thought it was interesting that her teacher at Millfield said that she needed to be in the company of a wider range of highly talented musicians."

Well, one can dislike something but still be interested in what happens. Competitions are always hit and miss, and this is not the first time or the last that I will disagree with a result. It has happened in the Leeds Piano competition where a juror (if I remember correctly) threatened to resign if Radu Lupo was not included as a finalist. I think he then may even have won, but it was a year of phenominal performers who were all winners.

Well teachers at Millfield may have been right, but what does that matter? She will be mixing with a range of musicians, if not already, and in any case she has been having lessons at the RAM with someone.

I don't disagree with your other comments which are fair enough.

Finaly, you may be right in your possible hint that professionals should keep out of all these discussions about players and leave it to other forum members to make their opinions, without further input from old hacks like me.

[Oldcrofter]

Well, thank you for such a full reply, Ariosto. No, I didn't mean to hint at all that professionals should keep out of discussions about players.

As a total non-professional, I'm always interested in how professionals judge performers, whether in competitions or auditions. I've very frequently found their opinions in competitions and performance quite at variance with my own. They see and hear things which I don't. That's why they're professionals, and it's that difference in perception and judgement that interests me.

And thanks for taking the time to re-read my earlier message and answering it with your very interesting views.

[Thropplenoggin]

There's so much 'love in the room' right now that this place is beginning to resemble the Oprah Winfrey Show. How long before the words 'group hug' appear?

[Ariosto]

There's so much 'love in the room' right now that this place is beginning to resemble the Oprah Winfrey Show. How long before the words 'group hug' appear?

Well, Oldcrofter and me go back a long way, or at least I'm of vintage material. However, he probably is taking me too seriously, as I'm full of B/S you know.

[Honoured Guest]

"Showing promise" isn't a criterion in adjudicating the Young Musicians.

[Sir Velo]

What worried me a bit about the 19 year old who won was that his technique was very surface, with lots of poor intonation, poor sound and faking of difficult passages. I also found his interpretations rather shallow and unconvincing. Particularly the Bloch and the Britten, which he got nowhere near. But what do I know, I'm tone deaf and brain dead.

I think you must be as he played the Bloch, and Ruisi played the Britten! To be fair, I think Dutton was the most extrovert of the players and his tone was as sweet as any with the exception, possibly, of the young Korean. I don't see any big issue over the chair of the jury either. There was no indication from the other jurors that they weren't all in agreement with the final decision.

[Ariosto]

I think you must be as he played the Bloch, and Ruisi played the Britten! To be fair, I think Dutton was the most extrovert of the players and his tone was as sweet as any with the exception, possibly, of the young Korean. I don't see any big issue over the chair of the jury either. There was no indication from the other jurors that they weren't all in agreement with the final decision.

Yes, I did get the Britten mixed up with the wrong player but that was probably because they both were pretty inacurate. I give up with competitions especially when I feel that they get it wrong. I don't think Dutton will stand much chance of winning overall especially if there are good pianists and woodwind. But i expect I will be proved wrong again.

[Nick Armstrong]

he's just an administrator

I think that's unfair. I don't know him but I know of the family and it's extremely musical, and there's no reason to doubt that he is likewise. Sons of Kenneth Bowen the tenor, Meurig's brother is Geraint Bowen who directs the music at Hereford Cathedral. "Just an administrator" is wide of the mark, I think.

[Barbirollians]

I liked the South Korean violinist too and her Kreisler was particularly interesting. She seemed to suffer for choosing safe repertoire .

I missed Button's Bloch but I liked his RK. Ruisi seemed to be really struggling without his own violin . The harpist was good in the Hindemith but her Bach sounded like Chopin !

[Ariosto]

I liked the South Korean violinist too and her Kreisler was particularly interesting. She seemed to suffer for choosing safe repertoire .

I missed Button's Bloch but I liked his RK. Ruisi seemed to be really struggling without his own violin . The harpist was good in the Hindemith but her Bach sounded like Chopin !

Personally I wouldn't describe the Kreisler as safe repertoir and the Brahms takes a real musician to pull it off. The fact that she did pull it off in my view meant that I favoured her and the Russian over the two "flighty no technique" boys. Dutton's Buttons came undone after just a few bars.

[Thropplenoggin]

I'd wager several groats on the strong likelihood that "the Russian" Elizaveta Tyun will end up as the one being heard in recitals/on disc in the coming decades.

[teamsaint]

I'd wager several groats on the strong likelihood that "the Russian" Elizaveta Tyun will end up as the one being heard in recitals/on disc in the coming decades.

A bold claim, @noggo.

Remind us of the current Groat/euro rate...........

[mercia]

I haven't really followed this competition over the years. Do the winners (or finalists) always fulfill their early promise with illustrious careers ? Is the aim of the competition to find the soloists of the future ? Not all instruments really lend themselves to a solo career do they. (?)

[teamsaint]

I haven't really followed this competition over the years. Do the winners (or finalists) always fulfill their early promise with illustrious careers ? Is the aim of the competition to find the soloists of the future ? Not all instruments really lend themselves to a solo career do they. (?)

I wouldn't know, but the wiki list of finalists for 1978 makes for interesting reading.