BBC Young Musician 2014

[Dave2002]

I didn't realise that this was being spread out over several weeks, so the first programmes are still on iPlayer, and there are several more yet to come - http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00bb3wt

However, a recent bad experience with iPlayer might persuade me to find a more robust way to ensure that I have the programmes to watch.

[teamsaint]

So to the percussion. Passing swiftly over the ghastly razz-ma-tazz that seems to be deemed necessary to 'engage' a BBCTV punter these days, I was hugely impressed by the musicianship of all of them. How do you choose a winner? The young lad who won was musically eloquent and drew us in to his performance. I thought the girl (who did a stunning side-drum solo) and the lad from Wells could equally have been chosen...which is why I find something deeply disturbing about the competitive aspect of music. Interesting that Alison Balsam (who never 'won' the YMOTY crown) now has one of the most successful careers in music of any of them.

The marimba still seems to hold sway in the world of percussion, doesn't it?

Check out the non winners from 1978, Ards.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BBC_Young_Musician_of_the_Year

The value in these competitions is in entertainment, at best.

I rather doubt if All those star soloists on the 1978 list needed the competition to get their ability noticed.
But I could be wrong.

[Honoured Guest]

I think that competitions are a good way of engaging audiences who have some limited interest but little knowledge and who would like to learn more. They can watch the introductions and performances and make their own observations and come to their own decisions. The competitive element heightens their interest in paying proper attention and comparing aspects of the performances. Then they can hear some expert judgment which may inform them of some aspect which they didn't previously know about.

[Ariosto]

Then they can hear some expert judgment which may inform them of some aspect which they didn't previously know about.

Are you sure about that!?!

[french frank]

which is why I find something deeply disturbing about the competitive aspect of music

Interesting bit of research about music competitions.

Slightly different, but not wholly dissimilar, would be literary prizes. Does anyone really believe that somehow the 'best' always wins based on the wisdom and experience of judges? But for winners there are often post-competition rewards - contracts, engagements, publicity.

I tend to agree with HG about YMotY: it is now, primarily, public entertainment/enjoyment, rather like Classical Star and Maestro, and adopts a format that will keep the attention of audiences who may or may not be very interested in classical music: the youth of the participants is an added attraction for less informed audiences who don't have much on which to base opinions about repertoire or musical technique. Everyone extracts what they can from the competitive part.

[ardcarp]

Check out the non winners from 1978, Ards.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BBC_You...an_of_the_Year

Indeed!

On this point:

it is now, primarily, public entertainment/enjoyment

...well, nothing wrong with that, I suppose, and if a bit of 'art music' falls on unaccustomed ears, so much the better. I hope it isn't being snobby or elitist to wonder if Jo Public is able to grasp the difference in the ability, achievement and hard graft of a YMotY competitor and a You've Got Talent participant.

[MrGongGong]

I hope it isn't being snobby or elitist to wonder if Jo Public is able to grasp the difference in the ability, achievement and hard graft of a YMotY competitor and a You've Got Talent participant.

I think one has to be very careful (and i've never watched You've Got Talent or X Factor et al) not to make the mistake of assuming that youngsters who are making music in genres other than classical music haven't got Ability, don't Achieve or even don't work very hard indeed.
Some of the most committed and hard working young musicians I have met play in bands and work just as hard and have very similar abilities to those winners of the YMotY folks that I have met and worked with.

[french frank]

I think one has to be very careful (and i've never watched You've Got Talent or X Factor et al) not to make the mistake of assuming that youngsters who are making music in genres other than classical music haven't got Ability, don't Achieve or even don't work very hard indeed.
Some of the most committed and hard working young musicians I have met play in bands and work just as hard and have very similar abilities to those winners of the YMotY folks that I have met and worked with.

The valid comparisons are (ironically) between individuals, regardless of what kind of music they're playing - which is the whole point of the competition.

However, I await the moment when some enlightened administrator decides that musicians of any music/instrument should be included in YMotY (why not?), so that we'll have the Proms ('not an exclusively classical festival'), Radio 3 ('not exclusively classical station') and everywhere where classical music has claimed a little haven of its own being required to share its 'good idea' to make it 'inclusive', whereas there will be minuscule attempts (if any) to share Glastonbury (or any other pop festival), Womad, Radio 1, Radio 2, 6 Music &c regularly with tasters of classical music. The barriers go up at once.

Already my knee-jerk reaction is to avoid any sort of local festival or celebration - of whatever kind - if it announces 'music' as being an added attraction as soon as they announce the performers: youthful popular. to the exclusion (hence not inclusive) of all else. Sorry, I'm too old even to be bothered with boy bands, girl bands, young singer-song-writers. I leave that to the young-in-heart like MrGG :-)

[teamsaint]

I think that competitions are a good way of engaging audiences who have some limited interest but little knowledge and who would like to learn more. They can watch the introductions and performances and make their own observations and come to their own decisions. The competitive element heightens their interest in paying proper attention and comparing aspects of the performances. Then they can hear some expert judgment which may inform them of some aspect which they didn't previously know about.

The programming of the shows doesn't really suggest that they are managing to engage new or less well informed audiences.

as for judging for themselves, why not just present the music, (and give the musicians a platform) and actually let the audience make their own private judgement, which , according the article that FF found, () is likely to be as valid as that of the judges.
Better surely to encourage people to make their own judgements, than rely on the opinions of others all the time.
There is more than one way to increase reach , and fulfill remits.

(New Generation artists, once selected, don't have to compete, and a winner chosen).

[MrGongGong]

However, I await the moment when some enlightened administrator decides that musicians of any music/instrument should be included in YMotY (why not?),

I think there is a problem with the title of the competition, but sadly it's far too late to do anything about it now.
The word "musician" is all encompassing.
When I listened to the Radio 2 Folk awards the other week, the awards for young folk folk were very much a part of it.
While I can rant on for days about how genre based music education is a bad idea, this is NOT about that.

The problems arise IMV when one thing is perceived to be "proper" music and "above" other forms.
Encouragingly for the world is that many young folks I meet who might only listen to "urban" (as opposed to "Urbane" ? ) music are knocked out when they sit in front of an orchestra. OR better still, have their piece played by the same ensemble.

The BBC should maybe at the start found a way of defining this competition, it ends with a concerto with an orchestra, so that shouldn't be too hard ! Rather than using the catch all of MUSICIAN. But, as I said, it's a bit late for that.

[Lordgeous]

Personally I wouldn't describe the Kreisler as safe repertoir and the Brahms takes a real musician to pull it off. The fact that she did pull it off in my view meant that I favoured her and the Russian over the two "flighty no technique" boys. Dutton's Buttons came undone after just a few bars.

I haven't spoken with anyone who would have put the winner first. Have been a competition adjudicator myself (many years ago) and its not always an easy task. I thought the Russian & Korean violinists and the harpist outstanding.

[mercia]

looks like in the week commencing 12th May the Radio 3 evening concerts will be given over entirely to the YM finals

[Ariosto]

Well I did think of leaving permanenly, but as there are some really nice, intelligent and well educated people on here I decided to remain. And the doc told me today I might last a few more months. I'm more worried about Bonnie who has to see the vet today as she has developed a bad limp (probably from chasing music critics ... and maybe she bit a conductor when I wasn't looking, so may have done her front leg in).

Mind you, I probably will leave soon, especially as I heard some of the BBC Young Musicians again tonight (woodwind) and they chose one of the worst players in my opinion. So any connection with that disreputable and totally amateur setup must be a bad thing. So by association with the BBC in any way is not good.

[ardcarp]

The woodwind category final. The recorder player won. I thought the second (girl) saxophonist was lovely and will probably go far anyway. She earned money to buy her sax by working in parents' cafe, was by far the most fluent and sensible speaker and was a born performer. The last flute player was for me absolutely superb, and his solo piccolo piece plus the Dutilleux at the end showed mastery of the instruments and superb musicianship. But the judges were there and we only heard it via a box.

[Mary Chambers]

I was very impressed by the last flautist, too, but I think it was fair that the superb recorder player won. The flautist was still the best flautist. He won't be competing with the recorder player in his career.

I dislike the sound of the saxophone, so find it difficult to listen. The charming girl with the glasses was a delightful personality, but even I could hear her playing had faults.