BBC Young Musician 2014

[Ariosto]

"I'm afraid that I don't see it as reassuring at all.

Our society and culture encourages excellence in far too narrow a range of activities at far too young an age.
This is all too evident in schools, where very narrow academic criteria are lauded, and box ticking reigns.
Music , and young people with musical talent, of whom there are many,would be much better served by a much greater emphasis on creativity over very narrow performance criteria.BBCYMY is a reflection of all this IMO


I would agree that much of the Wider culture that surrounds young people is pretty disastrous."


"I still don't like the way it's presented, but I was impressed by what music I heard. I always find the BBCYM very reassuring. It counteracts the deadly youth culture we're normally faced with.

It must have been very difficult to choose a winner from such a talented group. I'd have been torn between Ruisi and Dutton. Ruisi chose a more interesting programme, I thought, but Dutton had a completeness about him which was very appealing."

Two rather different views. I rather agree with team saint.


I agree with Mary that the presentation was still pretty poor. For me there was only one "winner" (how I hate that word). I was impressed with the harpist but out of the fiddlers there was only one that had promise, and that was the young lady from S. Korea. The winner was in my judgement the worst of the bunch, by a hell of a long way!

[Mary Chambers]

I agree with Mary that the presentation was still pretty poor. For me there was only one "winner" (how I hate that word). I was impressed with the harpist but out of the fiddlers there was only one that had promise, and that was the young lady from S. Korea. The winner was in my judgement the worst of the bunch, by a hell of a long way!

I hate the word 'winner', too.

I respect your point of view, but I think it's rather extreme to say that only one of the fiddlers had promise. They all had. I think there's a tendency to choose older players as the 'winner' (can't say I've any proof of this), except in extreme cases like that of Benjamin Grosvenor. Please don't tell me he had no promise! The Korean girl was, I think, the youngest of the group.

[Oldcrofter]

Ariosto,
You write:
"I agree with Mary that the presentation was still pretty poor. For me there was only one "winner" (how I hate that word). I was impressed with the harpist but out of the fiddlers there was only one that had promise, and that was the young lady from S. Korea. The winner was in my judgement the worst of the bunch, by a hell of a long way! "

There must be something seriously wrong about auditions for the National Youth Orchestra if, for example, Roberto Ruisi (leader NYO, I believe)shows no promise. Are you a professional violinist, perhaps ? In what respect was William Dutton (the winner of this category) "the worst of the bunch, by a hell of a long way".

If you hate the word (and concept, presumably) "winner", why pay any attention to BBCYM ? I'd agree with you that Dogyung Anna Im demonstrated great promise and musicality and I thought it was interesting that her teacher at Millfield said that she needed to be in the company of a wider range of highly talented musicians.

I also found it interesting that the three talented Ruisi brothers came from a non-musical family; Juliana (harp) also seemed to come from a pretty ordinary housing estate in Herts.

As for encouraging excellence in far too narrow a range of activities, in my experience as a teacher, talented musicians very frequently have a wide range of interests and other talents - sporting, linguistic, dance, skiing, athletic, culinary etc. They have enormous "stickability" and passion.

[DracoM]

In between multiple presenter gush based on X-Factor et al, we got tiny, tiny clips of actual music. Wow!
Is this Tony Hall's 'new way' with the Arts?

[Ariosto]

I hate the word 'winner', too.

I respect your point of view, but I think it's rather extreme to say that only one of the fiddlers had promise. They all had. I think there's a tendency to choose older players as the 'winner' (can't say I've any proof of this), except in extreme cases like that of Benjamin Grosvenor. Please don't tell me he had no promise! The Korean girl was, I think, the youngest of the group.

Hi Mary

I did not intend to say that the others had no promise, and in fact they were ALL promising. But the winner for me had the least promise, and the S Korean, the most. But with regard to age, if you haven't made it by 12 years of age, then, in MOST cases, you won't make it. Then some like Ben G made it pretty young, but like many before him, may have got burnt out by early twenties. On the other hand who knows, he may go from strength to strength. I've heard fiddlers at age 8-12 who have been there at the top, and incredible musicians. Some may lose it (i.e. Menuhin and Bell) to some degree, but if you hear Ricci aged 8 and Bell age 12 - not to mention Heifetz at similar age, and others too, then they are already complete musicians both technically and musically.

What worried me a bit about the 19 year old who won was that his technique was very surface, with lots of poor intonation, poor sound and faking of difficult passages. I also found his interpretations rather shallow and unconvincing. Particularly the Bloch and the Britten, which he got nowhere near. But what do I know, I'm tone deaf and brain dead.

[Mary Chambers]

The winner didn't play Britten, did he? It was Ruisi who wrestled with that.

[Ariosto]

The winner didn't play Britten, did he? It was Ruisi who wrestled with that.

Yes, you are right. But he (Ruisi) also was extremely slapdash and not very convincing. The two young ladies (and the harpist) were far superior in my opinion, but it seems that showmanship always wins out, even when there is a lack of musical substance. So the message is: what you lack in ability you make up with visual showmanship. (Well, I suppose TV is a visual medium so that's what counts).

(I'm getting paranoid about computers as I thought I had lost what I had just written. (Twice in half an hour). I eventually got most of it back. but I think I will close down now and go for a nice walk and join the sane).

[Nick Armstrong]

Yes, you are right. But he (Ruisi) also was extremely slapdash and not very convincing.

I'm glad it wasn't just my ears. Thanks, Ari. I wasn't impressed with him or the winner, speaking as a trombonist (hence I didn't say anything! )

[Thropplenoggin]

Yes, you are right. But he (Ruisi) also was extremely slapdash and not very convincing. The two young ladies (and the harpist) were far superior in my opinion, but it seems that showmanship always wins out, even when there is a lack of musical substance. So the message is: what you lack in ability you make up with visual showmanship. (Well, I suppose TV is a visual medium so that's what counts).

(I'm getting paranoid about computers as I thought I had lost what I had just written. (Twice in half an hour). I eventually got most of it back. but I think I will close down now and go for a nice walk and join the sane).

And break your violin a few days beforehand. A good sob story is always useful in these X Factor-led days.

I thought the first violinist (Elizaveta Tyun) and the harpist were the most interesting to listen to. They seemed totally engaged in the music of their performances, that sort of absent presence, as opposed to the, ahem, 'showmanship' of the prancing fiddlers, whilst the Korean showed her youth and her vibrato was excessive (her Brahms was awful to these ears). Since harp music is not my thing, the only one I will actively seek out again is Tyun. Those airy wisps of sound she produced at the end of her recital...haunting, with wonderful control.

As for the presentation...woeful. Who is the gush-meister general they send in after the performances? He looks like a life-size Ken doll!

[french frank]

young people with musical talent, of whom there are many,would be much better served by a much greater emphasis on creativity over very narrow performance criteria.

I don't agree with that. Not because the creativity isn't (also) important but if the concentration were on creativity wouldn't it be 'everyone a singer-songwriter'; or, everyone performing their own work and no one performing anyone else's?

Performance is what involves an audience - and wouldn't general performance standards suffer if there were no 'specialists'?

[teamsaint]

I don't agree with that. Not because the creativity isn't (also) important but if the concentration were on creativity wouldn't it be 'everyone a singer-songwriter'; or, everyone performing their own work and no one performing anyone else's?

Performance is what involves an audience - and wouldn't general performance standards suffer if there were no 'specialists'?

I'm not suggesting at all that we don't need specialists. However, there is a long way from being a shortage of good Music College graduates, and I am pretty certain that those with the ability to perform at soloist level will find their way through the system with plenty of encouragement.
There are a lot of frustrated ex conservatoire graduates out there, who might have been better served by a wider development of their talents, (the talents mentioned by Old Crofter).

My issue is with the balance. The music education system does have a strong tendency to favour classical performance. University courses tend to discourage creative risk, from what I have seen. The students themselves, in general, need to develop their full range of talents, and that is very difficult when the emphasis is on high levels of competence in a specialist field at an early age.

[Nick Armstrong]

Who is the gush-meister general they send in after the performances? He looks like a life-size Ken doll!

M. Karadaglić Esq.

http://milosguitar.com/bio/

[Thropplenoggin]

M. Karadaglić Esq.



http://milosguitar.com/bio/

There are no words...

[Nick Armstrong]

There are no words...

Well, there are - but not that you could post here without Frenchie's SWAT team descending on your post

[teamsaint]

Well, there are - but not that you could post here without Frenchie's SWAT team descending on your post

or Pabmusic's pedantry police.....