The Bournemouth Orchestra and Karabits play Mozart and Bruckner

[Hornspieler]

The Bournemouth Orchestra and Karabits play Mozart and Bruckner

I nearly missed this delightful programme, broadcast at 7.30pm on Wednesday 2nd April.

Mozart’s last piano concerto (K.595) superbly played by Francesco Piedmontesi and Bruckner’s unfinished ninth symphony.

Some stunning playing by both soloist and orchestra and I am surprised that there has been no mention of it on these boards.

You have until Tuesday 8th April to catch it on iPlayer and I can recommend it as one of the highlights of PO3 for 2014.


Hs

[edashtav]

Ban bruckner at Barbican

The Bournemouth Orchestra and Karabits play Mozart and Bruckner

I nearly missed this delightful programme, broadcast at 7.30pm on Wednesday 2nd April.

Mozart’s last piano concerto (K.595) superbly played by Francesco Piedmontesi and Bruckner’s unfinished ninth symphony.

Some stunning playing by both soloist and orchestra and I am surprised that there has been no mention of it on these boards.

You have until Tuesday 8th April to catch it on iPlayer and I can recommend it as one of the highlights of PO3 for 2014.


Hs

Thanks, hs, for getting this thread started - I was about to do the same after taking the opportunity this morning to comparing Karabits' interpretation with Jansons' one that I heard live at the Barbican last evening.

Let's start wth the hors d-oeuvres. Francesco Piedmontesi strikes me as a rising young star. So far, I've dipped into his Mozart but enough to think, "I must hear it all.". Last evening the Concertgebouw played Beethoven's 1st Piano Concerto with Lars Vogt in terrific form. Vogt's star has risen and I had thought it had reached its apogee after hearing a routine performance during last summer. We all have "off-days". Last evening he was superb: crystalline, pointed, beautifully shaped playing. The accompaniment was to die for. No phrase was played without shape and purpose. The dialogue between clarinet and piano in the slow movement was beautiful - so much so that Jansons brought his clarinetist to the apron of the stage at the end of the work to embrace Vogt to warm applause . Beethoven's "huge" cadenza was chosen for the first movement. This may be "early" Beethoven but it was performed with respect and its freshness and its inner qualities were revealed as never before in my experience. (Oooh, I must mention Vogt's encore,: a delicate Chopin nocturne. He played it with a sublime touch, never was night more ethereally magical.)

Karabits' (aka Maazel) Bruckner seemed to last about ten minutes longer than Jansons (57 mins, a new Barbican record for "young" Richard Strauss). Why? Well, Jansons had been "in residence" in the Barbican last week and he'd relaised that the Hall's yucky acoustics didn't do "pregnant" pauses- just flat voids (as likely filled with "noises off", the audience's seating being more resonant that the stage area). I felt that Jansons cut his losses by excising those magnificent moments when Bruckner resonates on. Karabits has the Lighthouse, or whatever its called these days. It's ultra bright & aggressively loud; programmes ought to carry health warnings: "If you're sensitive to loud noises please insert cotton wool in your ears before entering this auditorium" . But it has some resonance and instruments sound natural: brass are brassy, kettle-drums do not suffer from being turned into children's tin drums as they are in the Barbican. Karabits was able to linger over phrases: Jansons had to press on (or lose the plot i.e.structure). Karabits took a longer, more classical view of phrasing and his instruments played with smooth lines akin to the sound produced by organ pipes. The greater finesse of the superb Concertgebouw orchestra allowed Jansons to include more detail and pointing in his phrasing. And... let's face it a touch of real, maddening, idiosyncracy. You'll recall the insistent brassy rhythm on one note that starts the schezo's main theme. It's complemented by a more lightly scored (upper strings & wind) motif that decends and then turns round and climbs to the height - I suppose its shape is like a tick. Now, Jansons slowed the brassy rhythm and had it played molto, molto pesante, as if giants were hammering it out on super-sized anvils. Fine, I thought, very impressive. Whoops, the rest of the "tick" phrase was in a different, much faster tempo with the hint of an accelerando as it signed off. Too revisionist for me, Mariss. Full marks for Jansons for playing the slow movement quite quickly but not robbing it of majesty and awe. The ending was swift, but poised and it possessed both a finality and a feeling that the there was more to come. Karabits ending after a broad, reverential adagio, was too imprecise and hesitant, his movement, his performance petered out in a bathetic, unsatisfying manner.

To sum up: Karabits performance was broad, classical, and controlled but he needs more chances to refine his model. Jansons version was swift, full of exciting detail that was dovetailed to avoid structural damage, but was marred for me by one phrase ( repeated often) that was "extreme". Neither conductor was aided by the acoustics of his hall; in the case of the Barbican this "acoustic deficit" was so extreme that I'm tempted to mount a campaign: "Ban Bruckner at Barbican".

[Petrushka]

Last evening the Concertgebouw played Beethoven's 1st Piano Concerto with Lars Vogt in terrific form. Vogt's star has risen and I had thought it had reached its apogee after hearing a routine performance during last summer. We all have "off-days". Last evening he was superb: crystalline, pointed, beautifully shaped playing. The accompaniment was to die for. No phrase was played without shape and purpose. The dialogue between clarinet and piano in the slow movement was beautiful - so much so that Jansons brought his clarinetist to the apron of the stage at the end of the work to embrace Vogt to warm applause . Beethoven's "huge" cadenza was chosen for the first movement. This may be "early" Beethoven but it was performed with respect and its freshness and its inner qualities were revealed as never before in my experience. (Oooh, I must mention Vogt's encore,: a delicate Chopin nocturne. He played it with a sublime touch, never was night more ethereally magical.)

Ed, you might like to know that a performance of the Beethoven PC 1/Bruckner 9 given by Vogt and Jansons with the RCO on March 23 2014 is up on the Netherlands Radio 4 website.

http://concerthuis.radio4.nl/concert/4292/Het_Zondagmiddagconcert_pianist_Lars_Vogt_en_Koninklijk_Concertgebouworkest_o.l.v._Maris_Janssons?work=17944

[gedsmk]

I enjoyed the Bournemouth Bruckner very much. Well-paced and the orchestra in good form.

[edashtav]

Ed, you might like to know that a performance of the Beethoven PC 1/Bruckner 9 given by Vogt and Jansons with the RCO on March 23 2014 is up on the Netherlands Radio 4 website.

http://concerthuis.radio4.nl/concert...ons?work=17944

Cheers, Pet - I must find time to hear those performances that, I'm confident, were given in better acoustic conditions.

[Barbirollians]

Thanks, hs, for getting this thread started - I was about to do the same after taking the opportunity this morning to comparing Karabits' interpretation with Jansons' one that I heard live at the Barbican last evening.

Let's start wth the hors d-oeuvres. Francesco Piedmontesi strikes me as a rising young star. So far, I've dipped into his Mozart but enough to think, "I must hear it all.". Last evening the Concertgebouw played Beethoven's 1st Piano Concerto with Lars Vogt in terrific form. Vogt's star has risen and I had thought it had reached its apogee after hearing a routine performance during last summer. We all have "off-days". Last evening he was superb: crystalline, pointed, beautifully shaped playing. The accompaniment was to die for. No phrase was played without shape and purpose. The dialogue between clarinet and piano in the slow movement was beautiful - so much so that Jansons brought his clarinetist to the apron of the stage at the end of the work to embrace Vogt to warm applause . Beethoven's "huge" cadenza was chosen for the first movement. This may be "early" Beethoven but it was performed with respect and its freshness and its inner qualities were revealed as never before in my experience. (Oooh, I must mention Vogt's encore,: a delicate Chopin nocturne. He played it with a sublime touch, never was night more ethereally magical.)

Karabits' (aka Maazel) Bruckner seemed to last about ten minutes longer than Jansons (57 mins, a new Barbican record for "young" Richard Strauss). Why? Well, Jansons had been "in residence" in the Barbican last week and he'd relaised that the Hall's yucky acoustics didn't do "pregnant" pauses- just flat voids (as likely filled with "noises off", the audience's seating being more resonant that the stage area). I felt that Jansons cut his losses by excising those magnificent moments when Bruckner resonates on. Karabits has the Lighthouse, or whatever its called these days. It's ultra bright & aggressively loud; programmes ought to carry health warnings: "If you're sensitive to loud noises please insert cotton wool in your ears before entering this auditorium" . But it has some resonance and instruments sound natural: brass are brassy, kettle-drums do not suffer from being turned into children's tin drums as they are in the Barbican. Karabits was able to linger over phrases: Jansons had to press on (or lose the plot i.e.structure). Karabits took a longer, more classical view of phrasing and his instruments played with smooth lines akin to the sound produced by organ pipes. The greater finesse of the superb Concertgebouw orchestra allowed Jansons to include more detail and pointing in his phrasing. And... let's face it a touch of real, maddening, idiosyncracy. You'll recall the insistent brassy rhythm on one note that starts the schezo's main theme. It's complemented by a more lightly scored (upper strings & wind) motif that decends and then turns round and climbs to the height - I suppose its shape is like a tick. Now, Jansons slowed the brassy rhythm and had it played molto, molto pesante, as if giants were hammering it out on super-sized anvils. Fine, I thought, very impressive. Whoops, the rest of the "tick" phrase was in a different, much faster tempo with the hint of an accelerando as it signed off. Too revisionist for me, Mariss. Full marks for Jansons for playing the slow movement quite quickly but not robbing it of majesty and awe. The ending was swift, but poised and it possessed both a finality and a feeling that the there was more to come. Karabits ending after a broad, reverential adagio, was too imprecise and hesitant, his movement, his performance petered out in a bathetic, unsatisfying manner.

To sum up: Karabits performance was broad, classical, and controlled but he needs more chances to refine his model. Jansons version was swift, full of exciting detail that was dovetailed to avoid structural damage, but was marred for me by one phrase ( repeated often) that was "extreme". Neither conductor was aided by the acoustics of his hall; in the case of the Barbican this "acoustic deficit" was so extreme that I'm tempted to mount a campaign: "Ban Bruckner at Barbican".

In which case we would not have Haitink's superb recent Bruckner 9 !

[edashtav]

In which case we would not have Haitink's superb recent Bruckner 9 !

Yes & No - you might have enjoyed an even better performance given a supportive acoustic, surely?

I feel we are too accepyting of the indifferent characeristics of the Barbican. Our capital's two most prestigious concert halls are not fit for purpose, IMHO.

[Barbirollians]

Yes & No - you might have enjoyed an even better performance given a supportive acoustic, surely?

I feel we are too accepyting of the indifferent characeristics of the Barbican. Our capital's two most prestigious concert halls are not fit for purpose, IMHO.

Very true - knock down that nasty hotel and rebuild the Queen's Hall !!!

[amateur51]

Yes & No - you might have enjoyed an even better performance given a supportive acoustic, surely?

I feel we are too accepyting of the indifferent characeristics of the Barbican. Our capital's two most prestigious concert halls are not fit for purpose, IMHO.

Surely Wigmore Hall is London's most prestigious concert hall and its 'characteristics' are impeccable

[Hornspieler]

Thanks, hs, for getting this thread started - I was about to do the same after taking the opportunity this morning to comparing Karabits' interpretation with Jansons' one that I heard live at the Barbican last evening.

Let's start wth the hors d-oeuvres. Francesco Piedmontesi strikes me as a rising young star. So far, I've dipped into his Mozart but enough to think, "I must hear it all.". Last evening the Concertgebouw played Beethoven's 1st Piano Concerto with Lars Vogt in terrific form. Vogt's star has risen and I had thought it had reached its apogee after hearing a routine performance during last summer. We all have "off-days". Last evening he was superb: crystalline, pointed, beautifully shaped playing. The accompaniment was to die for. No phrase was played without shape and purpose. The dialogue between clarinet and piano in the slow movement was beautiful - so much so that Jansons brought his clarinetist to the apron of the stage at the end of the work to embrace Vogt to warm applause . Beethoven's "huge" cadenza was chosen for the first movement. This may be "early" Beethoven but it was performed with respect and its freshness and its inner qualities were revealed as never before in my experience. (Oooh, I must mention Vogt's encore,: a delicate Chopin nocturne. He played it with a sublime touch, never was night more ethereally magical.)
Karabits' (aka Maazel) Bruckner seemed to last about ten minutes longer than Jansons (57 mins, a new Barbican record for "young" Richard Strauss). Why? Well, Jansons had been "in residence" in the Barbican last week and he'd relaised that the Hall's yucky acoustics didn't do "pregnant" pauses- just flat voids (as likely filled with "noises off", the audience's seating being more resonant that the stage area). I felt that Jansons cut his losses by excising those magnificent moments when Bruckner resonates on. Karabits has the Lighthouse, or whatever its called these days. It's ultra bright & aggressively loud; programmes ought to carry health warnings: "If you're sensitive to loud noises please insert cotton wool in your ears before entering this auditorium" . But it has some resonance and instruments sound natural: brass are brassy, kettle-drums do not suffer from being turned into children's tin drums as they are in the Barbican. Karabits was able to linger over phrases: Jansons had to press on (or lose the plot i.e.structure). Karabits took a longer, more classical view of phrasing and his instruments played with smooth lines akin to the sound produced by organ pipes. The greater finesse of the superb Concertgebouw orchestra allowed Jansons to include more detail and pointing in his phrasing. And... let's face it a touch of real, maddening, idiosyncracy. You'll recall the insistent brassy rhythm on one note that starts the schezo's main theme. It's complemented by a more lightly scored (upper strings & wind) motif that decends and then turns round and climbs to the height - I suppose its shape is like a tick. Now, Jansons slowed the brassy rhythm and had it played molto, molto pesante, as if giants were hammering it out on super-sized anvils. Fine, I thought, very impressive. Whoops, the rest of the "tick" phrase was in a different, much faster tempo with the hint of an accelerando as it signed off. Too revisionist for me, Mariss. Full marks for Jansons for playing the slow movement quite quickly but not robbing it of majesty and awe. The ending was swift, but poised and it possessed both a finality and a feeling that the there was more to come. Karabits ending after a broad, reverential adagio, was too imprecise and hesitant, his movement, his performance petered out in a bathetic, unsatisfying manner.

To sum up: Karabits performance was broad, classical, and controlled but he needs more chances to refine his model. Jansons version was swift, full of exciting detail that was dovetailed to avoid structural damage, but was marred for me by one phrase ( repeated often) that was "extreme". Neither conductor was aided by the acoustics of his hall; in the case of the Barbican this "acoustic deficit" was so extreme that I'm tempted to mount a campaign: "Ban Bruckner at Barbican".

An interesting review, Ed, but one which has veered wildly off post and steered the discussion towards a performance which took place 110 miles away and was not available to listeners on Radio 3.

"Live in Concert" The Performance forum is almost entirely bare of replies regarding those events which took place under that heading.

No wonder Roger Wright was "dumbing down" the channel's musical output - he was trying to get somebody actually to listen to Radio 3.

EA, JLW and I are like voices crying in the wilderness.

Hs

[Sir Velo]

No wonder Roger Wright was "dumbing down" the channel's musical output - he was trying to get somebody actually to listen to Radio 3.

EA, JLW and I are like voices crying in the wilderness.

Hs

I hardly think that 10 or 15 replies (or even fifty) on concerts here would make a blind bit of difference to R3 strategy. Similarly, one can listen to a concert without feeling prompted to comment on it. Wright has shown that he has long since disregarded the views expressed on this forum. Moreover, some posters are so intent on winding others up that it can hardly be a matter of surprise if most listeners don't feel the need to share their views.

[Dave2002]

I missed it live, but for anyone who want to try it's here - http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode...zart_Bruckner/

HS - the OP - has a point about hardly anyone (apparently) listening to the live concerts.

[BBMmk2]

These days I am catching up on radio 3's ;live broadcasts on iplayer, unfortunately.

[edashtav]

Surely Wigmore Hall is London's most prestigious concert hall and its 'characteristics' are impeccable

I shan't argue with that, Ams.

You have to travel many a mile to find a small hall with a better acousic than the Wigmore.

Perhaps, you agree with me re large halls.

[french frank]

"Live in Concert" The Performance forum is almost entirely bare of replies regarding those events which took place under that heading.

No wonder Roger Wright was "dumbing down" the channel's musical output - he was trying to get somebody actually to listen to Radio 3.

I can't think that most people listen to the concert in order to discuss it afterwards! As Sir Velo says, the fact that they have no interest in sharing their thoughts doesn't mean they didn't listen.