Mahler Das Lied von Der Erde

[Guest]

I listened to the Schoenberg Chamber version of this on Performance on 3 last night. It had TWO blokes singing! I thought it was supposed to be a bloke and a girl.

Even though I liked listening to the piece the even numbered mvts (which should be sung by a girl) did not sound right at all, especially in the flowery 4th mvt and the half an hour farewell slow mvt 6 ending. And especially the end where the girl is singing her farewell but it was this deep voiced geezer instead.

Was this Mahler or Schoenberg’s alternative arrangement to the norm? When it was on Discovering Music it was Schoenberg’s version and it was still a girl singing in the finale they played.

Could anyone shed any light on this?

3VS

[Roehre]

This Schönberg/Riehn version follows the original Mahler-score closely, INCLUDING Mahler's option that the singers may be of the same gender: ...for tenor, contralto (or bariton) [I quote Deryck Cooke here]. Please note that the two verses which are combined in Der Abschied only mention friends, not implying there is any kind of erotic relationship between the protagonists. They are friends, very close but nevertheless just friends.

E.g. Bernstein recorded the full-orchestral version with two male soloist as well, btw.

[Bryn]

It's for Tenor and Alto or Baritone. Though more usually sung by Tenor and Contralto, Tenor and Baritone is by no means uncommon.

Sorry Roehre, I didn't see you post before posting mine.

[3rd Viennese School]

But it does sound better with the girl singing especially in mvt 4 and that beautiful but bleak finale.
And it goes boy/girl/boy/girl/boy/girl

And then Shostakovich does that in Symphony no.14. (but not in that order!)

Anyway, I didn't know Mahler gave a choice between an Alto or Baritone for the even numbered mvts! You DO learn something every day, even if your'e a Mahler fan with Mahler books like me!

3VS

[Roehre]

But it does sound better with the girl singing especially in mvt 4 and that beautiful but bleak finale.
And it goes boy/girl/boy/girl/boy/girl

I agree fully with you 3VS.

[Bryn]

If you want to hear the Schoenberg/Riehn version with a female voice, there is a fine recording directed by Herreweghe (Remmert & Blochwitz). That conducted by Mark Wigglesworth (Rigby and Tear) is not to be recommended. He gets nowhere near the heights he achieved with the Cooke et al Mahler 10.

[3rd Viennese School]

Thanks all.
This is one of the Mahler's that I don't play often,compared to all the other war horse ones, which is why I made a special effort to hear the concert from the start last night!

BWS (Beers wines and spirits)
3VS

[Barbirollians]

I agree . I much prefer the contrast of the tenor and contralto voices .

It has been a very lucky piece on record

Ferrier/Patzak/Walter
Ferrier/Lewis/Barbirolli
Ludwig/Wunderlich/Klemperer
Baker/Leppard ( who is the tenor?
Faessbender/Araiza/Giulini
Hodgson and Horenstein
Thorberg and Walter ....

[Cellini]

Po3 the other night

I thought the Mahler sounded as if they were all sightreading. Not very good, and the tenor? drove me away.

However, I though Siegfried Idle was wonderful, and one of the best I've heard. Much prefer it in this, the 13 instrument chamber (original) version. The Cov garden Mob were really excellent.

[umslopogaas]

Post 8 Barbirollians

Baker/Leppard who is the tenor?

According to the 2010 Penguin Guide, Baker (I assume that's Dame Janet) recorded it on the BBC label with Leppard. The other singer is listed as tenor John Mitchinson.

I have an LP version of Das Lied with Janet Baker:

Janet Baker/James King and the Concertgebouw Orchestra, Amsterdam, cond. Bernard Haitink. Philips 6500 831.

She also made a famous recording of Kindertotenlieder and Lieder Eines Fahrenden Gesellen, with the Halle conducted by John Barbirolli. The LP is HMV ASD 2338. The Kindertotenlieder are unbearably intense, I cant listen to them, they reduce me to tears.

[Alf-Prufrock]

She also made a famous recording of Kindertotenlieder and Lieder Eines Fahrenden Gesellen, with the Halle conducted by John Barbirolli. The LP is HMV ASD 2338. The Kindertotenlieder are unbearably intense, I cant listen to them, they reduce me to tears.

These wonderful performances are available on an EMI Great Recording of the Century at less than £5 from Amazon! AND there's a performance by the same artistes of Lieder eines fahrenden Gesellen !

[3rd Viennese School]

Mine cost me 50p.
I tape recorded it from the library.

It heard it in April 1999- just after Shostakovich symphony no.8 (no wonder DLVDE was overshadowed!)

3VS

[BBMmk2]

I should think it was necessary to have the contralto for their songs? The Ludwig/Wunderlich recording is the one for me.

[Chris Newman]

This is interesting. In the early sixties I heard DLvDE for the first time on the radio and loved it. The broadcast was of an HMV Concert Classics recording (SXLP 30165) with Murray Dickie and Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau with the Philharmonia Orchestra under Paul Kletzki. I bought it and played it a lot and thoroughly recommend it. Kletzki was HMV's Mahler pioneer. My next recording was the famous Ludwig/Wunderlich/Klemperer version who for the well known tragic reasons used the Philharmonia and the New Philharmonia Orchestras.

DF-D had in fact previously recorded it for DG with Fritz Wunderlich and the Vienna SO under Joseph Krips and then went on to record it a third time with Leonard Bernstein, James King and the VPO.

MT-T has recorded DLvDE with the San Francisco SO, Thomas Hampson and Stuart Skelton.

Kent Nagano's Montreal SO has recorded it with Klaus Florian Vogt and Christian Gerhaher. I must get that for Gerhaher, the finest Mahler baritone.

There is also a piano version with Stephan Matthias Ladermann accompanying Ivan Palay and Robert Dean Smith.

I have put baritone singers' names in italics. Incidentally, I am much tempted by Gerhaher. I do not know the MT-T version but suspect that Hampson is getting past his glorious prime. Any recommendations are much welcomed.

[Chris Newman]

I have just caught the ROH Orchestra version from the Cadogan Hall with which 3VS launched this thread. I was much impressed. Thomas Hampson was much more in tune and firmer than one press reveiwer implied. He sounded very much like a steadier version of DF-D in his recording with Bernstein except where Pappano took the galloping boys on their horses so fast that no mezzo or baritone could keep up. That blip aside, the clarity of the chamber version came across well: some instrumentalists sounded nearly knackered by "Ich geh" in the "Abschied", which is forgivable as most had played twice as much as usual. Klaus Florian Vogt was a tad bland but sang brightly, youthfully and sweetly enough to still make me tempted by the thought of Christian Gerharher's baritone on Nagano's DLvdE.