What Is Early Music?

[richardfinegold]

I don't wander into this part of the forum very much, but lately I've been listening to a lot of bach, and I'm wondering if JSB is considered "Early Music"? Judging by the other threads here, it seems that he is. My listening tastes generally are dominated by music from the Classical Period to the mid 1960s, although I do have extensive Bach, Purcell, Handel and Vivaldi collections. Otherwise, I have a few Biber and Monteverdi discs, some discs by David Munrow, the Kings Noyse, Jordi Savall, but these don't get as much attention from me as the Bach and Vivaldi.
I interpret Early Music (Musik?) to mean anything up to mid Baroque, which for me is the generation before Bach, Vivaldi, Handel (I'll leave the long lived Teleman out of the discussion for now). I think that Bach, Handel, and Vivaldi are sufficiently 'mainstream' now for most collectors of Classical Music that they would constitute the beginning of what we consider core rep.
Am I off base? IF so I'd love to hear other opinions.

[BBMmk2]

RFG, it's certainly music not music(I think that's our continental freinds term for it). Early music is up to the time of JSB. I think you should also explore some of the English Tudor/Elizabethan period, such as Byrd, Tallis, Gibbons et al.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Well, for the Ardittis "Early Music" is Bartok.

I think that the term more generally applies to repertoire that was available in manuscript, but written before the onset of commercial Music publishing; so, before the early Seventeenth Century or thereabouts?

[Richard Tarleton]

Well, for the Ardittis "Early Music" is Bartok.

I think that the term more generally applies to repertoire that was available in manuscript, but written before the onset of commercial Music publishing; so, before the early Seventeenth Century or thereabouts?

Byrd, Tallis and Dowland all published their stuff commercially (with varying degrees of success) in the late 16th.....

[french frank]

I think it probably depends on context, and individual tastes. For example, if you don't find much of the medieval, Renaissance music very appealing, Early Music stops at the point at which you start to enjoy it, e.g. JSB.

I would take a very loose definition as 'pre-Classical'. But the Early Music Show has ventured into the realms of Mozart, which would seem pushing it. That may be the interpretation of those who consider anything pre 19th-c 'Romantic' as being 'early'.

I'd still stick to pre-Classical as a practical, working definition, not intended to be beyond criticism (- to anticipate criticism ).

[Honoured Guest]

Breakfast could be renamed as The Early Music Show. For most people, 2pm isn't really early, even on a Sunday.

[jean]

There's no universally-accepted definition of course, but the grey area seems to start at Bach.

Then the less well-known you are, the more likely you are to qualify as Early. Cf last week's EMS.

[doversoul1]

Where Radio 3’s Early Music Show is concerned, there doesn’t seem to be a cut off point at the early end. I am not sure if we had a programme about when chants became music or something to that effect but it wouldn’t sound at all out of place. As for the late end, Lucie, and Catherine used to do, would make some excuse when Haydn is included, and Mozart is definitely a guest. However, CPE and JC Bachs were near contemporaries of Mozart, and Clementi lived until 1833 but these composers can all happily be the subject of the EMS (I mean I am happy to hear them on the programme). I am sure there are plenty of scholars and experts on the forum who can explain why this is.

jean
Not sure how to make of last week’s EMS… very odd it was.

[Serial_Apologist]

Breakfast could be renamed as The Early Music Show. For most people, 2pm isn't really early, even on a Sunday.

Well done, HG, you stole my thunder!

I did think of writing "Acker Bilk"...

[Roehre]

As the pre-Bach music started to get the deserved attention more widely, i.e. from the mid 1960s onwards, "Early Music" was understood to be music before JSBach, therefore ending at around 1700.

It is no coincidence IMO that the HIP-"movement" developed alongside this re-discovery of an earlier past, together b.t.w. with a tendency in contemporary music to make more use of smaller ensembles than symphony orcehstras but larger than the up to ten musicians for chamber music.

It has got to be recalled, that until the mid 1950s even Vivaldi was a rather obscure and unknown composer (that ended with the Four Seasons recording of I Musici iirc, 1955?)

Monteverdi, let alone the Burgundian (Flemish/Dutch/Franco-schools [roughly: Dufay-Sweelinck]), or earlier music like de Machaut, let alone from the Toubadours/Trovères/Minnesänger, was written about, but hardly if at all performed. Stravinsky's interest in Gesualdo is a spin-off of this re-discovery of pre-1700 music e.g.

Pre-1700s is therefore roughly Early Music as we then did understand it, and IMO a definition which still makes sense for the majority of the "classical" listeners whose main interests lay roughly between say JSBach and Bartok.

[Richard Tarleton]

Well done, HG, you stole my thunder!

I did think of writing "Acker Bilk"...

S_A, there are those of us to whom the loss of 50% of the EMS is no laughing matter - I was all set to ignore the wind-up from HG

[LeMartinPecheur]

[T]he less well-known you are, the more likely you are to qualify as Early. Cf last week's EMS.

jean: good point, and I think a related factor is whether you've been performed on modern instruments. You're definitely an early music composer if you depend totally on HIPP ensembles to get heard!

[french frank]

Breakfast could be renamed as The Early Music Show. For most people, 2pm isn't really early, even on a Sunday.

'Music' might be something of a misselling point, given the bits that aren't ... It is 'early' though.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

'Music' might be something of a misselling point, given the bits that aren't ... It is 'early' though.

[Serial_Apologist]

S_A, there are those of us to whom the loss of 50% of the EMS is no laughing matter - I was all set to ignore the wind-up from HG

I miss it too - but I apologise, Richard.