Period Piano

[doversoul1]

Saturday
As part of the Piano Season on the BBC, Lucie Skeaping presents the first of two programmes about the development of the piano during the eighteenth century.
Lucie looks at the development of the piano from its origins in Florence with Bartolomeo Cristofori.
With contributions from the period instrument restorer Kerstin Schwarz, and Steven Devine, Professor of Fortepiano at Trinity College of Music

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01n9z9k

Sunday
Lucie continues her survey of the development of the period piano, ending in the early nineteenth century with instruments for which Beethoven and Haydn wrote music which were recognisable precursors of the modern concert grand piano.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01n9zgk

Not very often we hear Beethoven on EMS.

CD Review 9.05am

VIVALDI: La Senna festeggiante
BONONCINI: Messa a cinque concertata; Stabat Mater
VINCI: Artaserse
(Max E. Cencic in a skirt role)
I told you it would make it to CDR (well, I didn’t exactly but near enough)

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

This should be a fascinating programme. Thanks, Doversoul, for the pointer.

[John Shelton]

This should be a fascinating programme. Thanks, Doversoul, for the pointer.

(pedants corner / the BBC description - the last of Haydn's piano sonatas dates from 1794).

[amateur51]

Cheers for the alert once again, dovers - 'tis a grand job you do

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

An exccellent programme, though it began with the myth that the aerly instrument was first called the fortepiano and later the pianoforte, though this later corrected.

I've often wondered why a piano and forte harpsichord was never developed - it's technically possible.

[ardcarp]

Yes, it turned out to be a good programme, though it started off with Lucy, uncharacteristically, talking in Jackanory mode. The fact that forte and piano mean 'loud' and 'soft' has probably not escaped the notice of most R3 listeners, and yet the point was hammered [!] home several times.

EA, there is anpther slight myth and that is that the piano is a direct descendant of the harpsichord. I say 'slight' because there are obvious links, the strings, the soundboard, the bridge and of course the keyboard. BUT, BUT, BUT, has anyone heard a cimbalom or hammered dulcimer being played in the hands of an expert? I'm sure I am not the first to notice the similarity in sound between a cimbalom and an early piano such as the Cristofori or the Silbermann copies being played today. The cimbalom also has a sound board (or box to be precise), a bridge, strings AND it is played with hammers, albeit hand-held ones. It is capable of great subtlety of expression and a greater dynamic range than the piano. I have a personal conviction (though not backed up by evidence, alas) that it was hearing the effect of hammered strings from the many cimbalom players in Eastern Europe at the time which gave Cristofori and other experimenters the idea. That Cristofori managed to produced the earliest 'pianos' in such a mechanically clever way is certainly the mark of genius.

Sorry! Lecture over. Look forward to tomorrow's programme.

[Nick Armstrong]

The fact that forte and piano mean 'loud' and 'soft' has probably not escaped the notice of most R3 listeners, and yet the point was hammered [!] home several times.

[John Shelton]

Yes, it turned out to be a good programme, though it started off with Lucy, uncharacteristically, talking in Jackanory mode. The fact that forte and piano mean 'loud' and 'soft' has probably not escaped the notice of most R3 listeners, and yet the point was hammered [!] home several times.

EA, there is anpther slight myth and that is that the piano is a direct descendant of the harpsichord. I say 'slight' because there are obvious links, the strings, the soundboard, the bridge and of course the keyboard. BUT, BUT, BUT, has anyone heard a cimbalom or hammered dulcimer being played in the hands of an expert? I'm sure I am not the first to notice the similarity in sound between a cimbalom and an early piano such as the Cristofori or the Silbermann copies being played today. The cimbalom also has a sound board (or box to be precise), a bridge, strings AND it is played with hammers, albeit hand-held ones. It is capable of great subtlety of expression and a greater dynamic range than the piano. I have a personal conviction (though not backed up by evidence, alas) that it was hearing the effect of hammered strings from the many cimbalom players in Eastern Europe at the time which gave Cristofori and other experimenters the idea. That Cristofori managed to produced the earliest 'pianos' in such a mechanically clever way is certainly the mark of genius.

Sorry! Lecture over. Look forward to tomorrow's programme.

That's interesting, but are you thinking of the "modern concert cimbalom"? Because that was devised in the C19 by a piano maker, József Schunda in 1874. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cimbalom I completely agree about its wonders (I'm also wondering what instrument is played by folk musicians in Hungary, though the relation between tradition and adaptation is I'm sure an involved and unclear one, at least for the outsider).

Very off-topic, but I love this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbGwU...=results_video

[ardcarp]

are you thinking of the "modern concert cimbalom"?

Well, I'm awareof that chunky beast, but no, I'm thinking of the much smaller portable hammer dulcimer which was popular in Eastern Europe...still is...and whose origins go back a long way. I first heard one played, by a Hungarian, in France at a major festival of sail. He played evrything from Hungarian folk to Bach and was asolutely suberb. Mrs Ardcarp and I could not tear ourselves away such was his musicianship, his dexterity and his sensitive control of the instrument, which incidentally was suspended from a broad strap around his neck. The week before we had heard a square piano (I know a slightly later instrumet than those featured today) but the sound was very, very similar.

[ardcarp]

was suspended from a broad strap around his neck

Nrs A has reminded me that he also placed the dulcimer on a small stand when he was playing the more complex pieces. If you Google 'Hungarian hammer dulcimer' you get quite a few pics; and the shape of the hammers is interesting too....sort of curved over at the ends.

[doversoul1]

Originally Posted by ardcarp
I have a personal conviction (though not backed up by evidence, alas) that it was hearing the effect of hammered strings from the many cimbalom players in Eastern Europe at the time which gave Cristofori and other experimenters the idea. That Cristofori managed to produced the earliest 'pianos' in such a mechanically clever way is certainly the mark of genius.

I hope, one day when there is no string of any BBC fest, series, or –thon attached to it, Lucie and the team can produce a programme about what could have given Cristofori and other experimenters the idea about hammered strings. That will be definitely exclusive to Early Music Show.

Although it felt slightly un-EMS-ish, I enjoyed today’s programme and we have JC Bach and Clementi to look forward to tomorrow.

[John Shelton]

Nrs A has reminded me that he also placed the dulcimer on a small stand when he was playing the more complex pieces. If you Google 'Hungarian hammer dulcimer' you get quite a few pics; and the shape of the hammers is interesting too....sort of curved over at the ends.

Thanks, that's fascinating. I also now realise my entire cymbalom experience has been of the chunky beast ; though I'm sure I've heard a dulcimer in medieval music. Most interesting idea (there's a piano trio of Haydn's where there's a quasi-improvisatory passage in the slow movement for the piano which played on an early piano sounds exactly as you say. One of Haydn's moments of referring to folk music - I'll try to find it tomorrow).

[MickyD]

We have a band of gypsy players who regularly play in our town square - violin, double bass and cimbalom. I find the sound absolutely fascinating and could listen to it for hours. I also love the appearance it makes in Kodaly's "Hary Janos" suite.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Don't miss today's episode at 1.00 p.m.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

We have a band of gypsy players who regularly play in our town square - violin, double bass and cimbalom. I find the sound absolutely fascinating and could listen to it for hours.

I also love the appearance it makes in Kodaly's "Hary Janos" suite.

Yes; and in Stravinsky's Ragtime and Renard and Birtwistle's Gawain, too.