The Lost Sound - A documentary about the fortepiano

[MickyD]

Now here's a real treat for lovers of early pianos. Restorer Edwin Beunk gives us a fascinating insight into his work, including the bringing back to life of a seriously warped Nanette Streicher instrument and the trials and tribulations of taking an early piano abroad.
Contributions from Robert Levin, Andreas Staier, Kristian Bezuidenhut, Alexander Melnikov and Ronald Brautigam on why early pianos are so important to them. Plus what must be one of the last appearances by Frans Bruggen.
I was riveted from start to finish.

https://youtu.be/UPB9c69iByA

[kernelbogey]

Admission of Eccentric Response to This:

I would love to see this film (as I'm interested in pianos, and indeed started the Piano thread). Y**T*b* is owned by g**gl*, and to view the film I am required to sign up to their c**k** policy etc.

As a matter of (eccentric) principle I have decided - at least for now - not to patronise this company*, nor any of the other tech behemoths. (* I use DuckDuckGo for searches: no record is kept of my searches etc; Firefox as browser.)

Right now I'm not motivated to find a way round my self-imposed restriction. I realise and accept that I limit myself in various ways - not being able to see this film (probably) is a good example. But it's clear to me that the whole genre of online facilities which beckon us with siren eyes from all corners are offering goodies which are not free - the price is knowing information about us that enables them to flog us more stuff; then those stuffers do the same and so on ad infinitum.

If this post excites any non-pianistic responses I may start a new thread, having outed myself as a grumpy sort-of-Luddite (though it's not machines that I want to smash).

[RichardB]

Thanks Micky, that was an excellent way to start the day.

[richardfinegold]

Admission of Eccentric Response to This:

I would love to see this film (as I'm interested in pianos, and indeed started the Piano thread). Y**T*b* is owned by g**gl*, and to view the film I am required to sign up to their c**k** policy etc.

As a matter of (eccentric) principle I have decided - at least for now - not to patronise this company*, nor any of the other tech behemoths. (* I use DuckDuckGo for searches: no record is kept of my searches etc; Firefox as browser.)

Right now I'm not motivated to find a way round my self-imposed restriction. I realise and accept that I limit myself in various ways - not being able to see this film (probably) is a good example. But it's clear to me that the whole genre of online facilities which beckon us with siren eyes from all corners are offering goodies which are not free - the price is knowing information about us that enables them to flog us more stuff; then those stuffers do the same and so on ad infinitum.

If this post excites any non-pianistic responses I may start a new thread, having outed myself as a grumpy sort-of-Luddite (though it's not machines that I want to smash).

Trying to escape Google is like trying to escape the weather. And You Tube has a lot of fascinating stuff, which would otherwise be increasingly inaccessible in this Pandemic stricken world. I hardly think that watching a show about Pianos will facilitate Big Tech controlling you soul. And you can always sign up under an alias and if really concerned get a program that makes your browsing history inaccessible to all—even Google

[Ein Heldenleben]

Admission of Eccentric Response to This:

I would love to see this film (as I'm interested in pianos, and indeed started the Piano thread). Y**T*b* is owned by g**gl*, and to view the film I am required to sign up to their c**k** policy etc.

As a matter of (eccentric) principle I have decided - at least for now - not to patronise this company*, nor any of the other tech behemoths. (* I use DuckDuckGo for searches: no record is kept of my searches etc; Firefox as browser.)

Right now I'm not motivated to find a way round my self-imposed restriction. I realise and accept that I limit myself in various ways - not being able to see this film (probably) is a good example. But it's clear to me that the whole genre of online facilities which beckon us with siren eyes from all corners are offering goodies which are not free - the price is knowing information about us that enables them to flog us more stuff; then those stuffers do the same and so on ad infinitum.

If this post excites any non-pianistic responses I may start a new thread, having outed myself as a grumpy sort-of-Luddite (though it's not machines that I want to smash).

Yep before you know it the ads pushing used pianofortes will start popping up. Or if you liked that you’ll love this baroque oboe…
Seriously though your fundamental point is sound.

[french frank]

Quite a cast of characters: Levin, Staier, Bezuidenhout, Melnikov - I particularly enjoyed Bezuidenhout saying how 'exasperated' he became playing a Mozart sonata on a Steinway - and what a pleasure it was to then play it on an early piano. Surely thought-provoking even for pianoforte haters? A very instructive hour's listen.

[AuntDaisy]

Thanks, MickyD, for a fascinating programme. That's tonight's TV sorted.

In related news... Back in 2003, The Early Music Show had a programme on "Cristofori's Florentine Piano". Scarlatti gloriously played, inc. a comparison of K159 with the harpsichord.

Around 1700, Bartolomeo Cristofori, Keeper of Instruments for the Medici family in Florence had a brilliant idea - take a harpsichord, but instead of plucking the strings, hit them with a hammer instead. Catherine Bott joins instrument-maker Denzil Wraight who has recreated one of Cristofi's early pianos, and fortepianist Ella Sevskaya who has recorded a recital on it, especially for the programme.

More information & photos http://www.denzilwraight.com/crisfp.htm

[Bryn]

Here's one made earlier

[AuntDaisy]

Here's one made earlier

Thanks Bryn. 1973.

[Bryn]

Thanks Bryn. 1973.

There are a few other Kenneth van Barthold videos on Youtube, all worth watching. I won't post a link to his "The Emperor's New Clothes" yet again.

[MickyD]

Quite a cast of characters: Levin, Staier, Bezuidenhout, Melnikov - I particularly enjoyed Bezuidenhout saying how 'exasperated' he became playing a Mozart sonata on a Steinway - and what a pleasure it was to then play it on an early piano. Surely thought-provoking even for pianoforte haters? A very instructive hour's listen.

Yes, for the luxury list of players alone it is well worth watching. But I was also captivated by the sheer labour of love that Beunk has for his craft - absolutely fascinating.

[ardcarp]

I watched it last night. Then I Googled 'Streicher' and found that a certain Nannette Streicher was involved in the business. Did she get a mention? Obviously the programme was packed with fortepiano enthusiasts who were totally sold on the somewhat fragile sound. Heresy do I hear anyone say?
I can put up with a bit in a HIPP performance, but I do not believe (as was stated in the programme) that LvB wouldn't have loved a modern concert Steinway. I don't think it was mentioned in the programme either (unless I blinked) that Broadwoods provided Beethoven with a much sturdier instrument. I think it was this that inspired the Hammerklavier...but I stand to be corrected.

I was gobsmacked that so much time and expertise was spent on restoring (well, it looked more like re-making) that old Streicher whose original construction was criticised by several experts on the programme. Would this funding be available in the UK?

[RichardB]

I do not believe (as was stated in the programme) that LvB wouldn't have loved a modern concert Steinway. I don't think it was mentioned in the programme either (unless I blinked) that Broadwoods provided Beethoven with a much sturdier instrument. I think it was this that inspired the Hammerklavier

Oh dear! What Beethoven "would have loved" if he had lived another hundred years is neither here nor there - what music would he have written if he'd had access to instruments that didn't exist in his time? Whatever he "would have loved", he actually played and wrote for instruments made by Streicher, Graf, Broadwood and the rest. Beethoven received a Broadwood in 1818 and kept it for the rest of his life. He is supposed to have been impressed by its more powerful sound, although by that time his hearing was seriously impaired, so that may have been a factor also. Nevertheless it was a wooden-framed instrument which would not have sounded much like a "modern" piano.

[Bryn]

I watched it last night. Then I Googled 'Streicher' and found that a certain Nannette Streicher was involved in the business. Did she get a mention? Obviously the programme was packed with fortepiano enthusiasts who were totally sold on the somewhat fragile sound. Heresy do I hear anyone say?
I can put up with a bit in a HIPP performance, but I do not believe (as was stated in the programme) that LvB wouldn't have loved a modern concert Steinway. I don't think it was mentioned in the programme either (unless I blinked) that Broadwoods provided Beethoven with a much sturdier instrument. I think it was this that inspired the Hammerklavier...but I stand to be corrected.

I was gobsmacked that so much time and expertise was spent on restoring (well, it looked more like re-making) that old Streicher whose original construction was criticised by several experts on the programme. Would this funding be available in the UK?

Much sturdier than most Viennese action models of the time but still, of course, a wooden framed instrument with far, far lower string tension than a modern iron-framed instrument. Strangely, the only late keyboard works by Beethoven that I know of recordings of, on Beethoven's Broadwood, are of the Opus 126 Bagatelles, and there are two such recordings, by Schiff and by Tan.

Oops, I see Richard got in first on the wooden versus iron frame.

[french frank]

I do not believe (as was stated in the programme) that LvB wouldn't have loved a modern concert Steinway

I think it was Robert Levin who said that that was missing the point. If Beethoven had lived a century later and had composed for a Steinway he would have written music for the Steinway (and the works would have been different as much because he was living a century later as because he was composing for a Steinway). But his compositions were composed to be played on those instruments and I think it was Bezuidenhout who said the music was exhilarating/exciting precisely because it was pushing the instrument to its extreme (not his exact words but something like that). No doubt Ludwig loved the instruments he composed for too. I doubt that he lamented, 'Oh, if only these pianos could … '