Baroque trumpets - Sunday 14th at 2pm

[ardcarp]

Now this should be fun.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0005gsc

As with many early instruments (maybe especially oboes, cornetti and trumpets) the players have become astonishingly good. I remember some performances long ago...one B minor Mass in the new Coventry Cathedral...where attempts at non-valved trumpets were painful. Any HIPP performance of Bach with trumpets now just shows dazzling virtuosity. The likes of Crispian Steele Perkins (with whom I've worked) did a lot to improve things.

Here's the show details:

Hannah French joins trumpeter Simon Desbruslais at the Bate Collection in Oxford to explore some of the museum's examples of Renaissance and Baroque trumpets. Featuring music by Albinoni, Cacciamani, Bach, Telemann, Homilius, Kauffman and Hummel.

[MickyD]

Thanks for this. Oh yes, though a confirmed HIPster of some forty years, I can remember squirming in my seat and wincing at the sounds of some of early concerts I went to. Particularly excruciating was an attempt at the Haydn Trumpet Concerto on a copy of an early classical instrument. How it ever got to performance stage I shall never know...I sighed with relief once it was over.

[ardcarp]

Micky that was especially shameful as Haydn wrote his concerto for the new 'keyed trumpet'...not as easy to play perhaps as a modern instrument, but it was apparently fully chromatic.

From Wiki:

Anton Weidinger developed a keyed trumpet which could play chromatically throughout its entire range. Before this, the trumpet was valveless and could only play a limited range of harmonic notes by altering the vibration of the lips; also called by the name of "natural trumpet". Most of these harmonic notes were clustered in the higher registers, so previous trumpet concertos could only play melodically with the high register (e.g., Bach's Brandenburg Concerto No. 2). Haydn's concerto includes melodies in the middle and lower register, exploiting the capabilities of the new instrument.

[MickyD]

Yes, I agree. As a huge Academy of Ancient Music fan, I have to say that the one disc of theirs I wish hadn't been released is also that of the Haydn Trumpet Concerto with Friedemann Immer as soloist. To me it sounds like he is having difficulties as well and that Hogwood is having to adopt a slower pace. Maybe I'm being unkind - it would be interesting to hear what period players of today could do with this piece.

[Ein Heldenleben]

Now this should be fun.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0005gsc

As with many early instruments (maybe especially oboes, cornetti and trumpets) the players have become astonishingly good. I remember some performances long ago...one B minor Mass in the new Coventry Cathedral...where attempts at non-valved trumpets were painful. Any HIPP performance of Bach with trumpets now just shows dazzling virtuosity. The likes of Crispian Steele Perkins (with whom I've worked) did a lot to improve things.

Here's the show details:

Hannah French joins trumpeter Simon Desbruslais at the Bate Collection in Oxford to explore some of the museum's examples of Renaissance and Baroque trumpets. Featuring music by Albinoni, Cacciamani, Bach, Telemann, Homilius, Kauffman and Hummel.

Good listen this . I’m rather partial to it…

[Nick Armstrong]

Some comments from the programme’s first airing:

http://www.for3.org/forums/showthrea...n-19th-Jan-EMS

[ardcarp]

More thoughts here, and forgive the ramblings:

Simon D knows a lot and (apart from the slightly overlong opening self-biog) explained the essentials well. All brass instruments use the harmonic series and he showed how the basic 'bugle' notes (the principale) use the lower harmonics, while if you want the full range of diatonic notes, you have to use the very tricky upper harmonics in the 'clarino' register. (Good to hear some fine playing by John Wallis and Horton Hardenberger BTW.) Simon D also explained how vent holes allow a player to get more notes by effectively altering the length of the instrument. I'm glad the keyed trumpet (as used by Haydn) was mentioned.

I felt there was a lack of info about trumpets as used in the Classical era, notwithsatnding the mention of Haydn. Any conductor will know that the score of symphonies of that era with trumpets will just say 'trumpet in F' or 'trumpet in A' , and the part will be written in C without key sig. leaving the player to transpose and the conductor confused. Especially if the player raises his hand to say 'is that a sounding C# in bar 112' or whatever. In fact a trumpet needed to be made to play in the key of the music by adding a crook or a shank...an extra piece of tubing. D major seemed to be the popular 'trumpets and drums' key in Baroque times, so there were presumably lots of D trumpets around.

In fact Classical trumpet parts are (when trumpets and usually drums are used) often a bit simple and involve holding notes for quite a while, with lots of counting bars' rests. As it is expensive to get good trumpeters to play, it often seems a bit hard on a chamber orchestra's coffers...unless one can programme a trumpet concerto of some sort to justify the cost.

I know this programme was about trumpets, but horn players have always trodden the tricky upper reaches of their instrument,which rely on a longer tube and playing among the high harmonics. And they are of course usually part of the standard classical orchestra.

I know this is the early music show, but some mention of Britten's deliberate use of 'out-of-tune' harmonics might have been interesting (e.g. bugles in Noyes Fludde and especially the natural horn in the Serenade for Tenor, Horn and Strings).

[oddoneout]

More thoughts here, and forgive the ramblings:

Simon D knows a lot and (apart from the slightly overlong opening self-biog) explained the essentials well. All brass instruments use the harmonic series and he showed how the basic 'bugle' notes (the principale) use the lower harmonics, while if you want the full range of diatonic notes, you have to use the very tricky upper harmonics in the 'clarino' register. (Good to hear some fine playing by John Wallis and Horton Hardenberger BTW.) Simon D also explained how vent holes allow a player to get more notes by effectively altering the length of the instrument. I'm glad the keyed trumpet (as used by Haydn) was mentioned.

I felt there was a lack of info about trumpets as used in the Classical era, notwithsatnding the mention of Haydn. Any conductor will know that the score of symphonies of that era with trumpets will just say 'trumpet in F' or 'trumpet in A' , and the part will be written in C without key sig. leaving the player to transpose and the conductor confused. Especially if the player raises his hand to say 'is that a sounding C# in bar 112' or whatever. In fact a trumpet needed to be made to play in the key of the music by adding a crook or a shank...an extra piece of tubing. D major seemed to be the popular 'trumpets and drums' key in Baroque times, so there were presumably lots of D trumpets around.

In fact Classical trumpet parts are (when trumpets and usually drums are used) often a bit simple and involve holding notes for quite a while, with lots of counting bars' rests. As it is expensive to get good trumpeters to play, it often seems a bit hard on a chamber orchestra's coffers...unless one can programme a trumpet concerto of some sort to justify the cost.

I know this programme was about trumpets, but horn players have always trodden the tricky upper reaches of their instrument,which rely on a longer tube and playing among the high harmonics. And they are of course usually part of the standard classical orchestra.

I know this is the early music show, but some mention of Britten's deliberate use of 'out-of-tune' harmonics might have been interesting (e.g. bugles in Noyes Fludde and especially the natural horn in the Serenade for Tenor, Horn and Strings).

I think there was more that could have been covered even within the "early music" limitation but given it was one, hour long programme, trying to expand the material covered to later eras would have made for a very bitty and superficial listen.
As I noted in last years thread on this programme there is material here to make an additional programme which could also perhaps give the opportunity to cover the kind of things you mention.

[Cockney Sparrow]

More thoughts here, and forgive the ramblings:
I felt there was a lack of info about trumpets as used in the Classical era, notwithsatnding the mention of Haydn. Any conductor will know that the score of symphonies of that era with trumpets will just say 'trumpet in F' or 'trumpet in A' , and the part will be written in C without key sig. leaving the player to transpose and the conductor confused. Especially if the player raises his hand to say 'is that a sounding C# in bar 112' or whatever. In fact a trumpet needed to be made to play in the key of the music by adding a crook or a shank...an extra piece of tubing. D major seemed to be the popular 'trumpets and drums' key in Baroque times, so there were presumably lots of D trumpets around.

In fact Classical trumpet parts are (when trumpets and usually drums are used) often a bit simple and involve holding notes for quite a while, with lots of counting bars' rests. As it is expensive to get good trumpeters to play, it often seems a bit hard on a chamber orchestra's coffers...unless one can programme a trumpet concerto of some sort to justify the cost.

I'll find the time to listen to this. The information about the extra tubework may answer a question in my mind, as I don't have an extensive interest in baroque music.

On Saturday I went to a performance of the Christmas Oratorio in the local Cathedral. Three trumpeters*, not a crack to be heard but perhaps that's only to be expected these days. Made a bright and accomplished contribution to the (I believe) HIPP orchestra. Neil Brough, Paul Sharp, Michael Harrison. Not sure which of them came to the front to accompany the Bass (Matthew Brook)in "Grosser Herr, o starker Konig..." but it was very self assured and a delightful partnersip.

On Edit: I would add - Ben Hewlett, Tenor was also very good. Helen Charlston (Mezzo-Soprano) – is now on my radar – definitely one to watch. Not a bright mezzo, nor sounding like a Contralto, but a plangent and very even sound that can rise to the part, and no doubt will develop into new genres. We’ll hear a lot more of her in any case – her programme biography indicates she’s a 2021 ( BBC ) New Generation Artist……

[ardcarp]

On Saturday I went to a performance of the Christmas Oratorio in the local Cathedral.

Blimey, Christmas gets earlier each year! Was the concert all six parts or just the first three?
Glad the trumpeters cut the mustard. There's a lot of very good ones around now.