Mary Magdalene: EMS 16 April

[jean]

Some background to my own reaction.

I have sung the missal text of the Vicimae Paschali most Easter Sundays for many years. It was only when I sang the Josquin setting that I was aware of the bit we're discussing here, and I was shocked when I read it. More recently I've had to sing the plainsong to an English translation, and that section was there, but translated Happy they who bear witness, Mary's word believing / Above the tales of doubt and deceiving. There is some discussion of the point here, and I note that

The English Hymnal 1905 is ...Happy they who bear the witness, Mary's word believing / Above the tales of Jewry deceiving...

Interesting that the Catholics had got rid of all refence to 'lying Jews' before the Anglicans did!

[jean]

My question would be did those responsible for the programme know about this and go ahead anyway (...number of listeners knowing enough to pick it up likely to be very small?) or was the lack of comment due to lack of knowledge?

Either way, it's the decent obscurity of a learned language argument!

[oddoneout]

Either way, it's the decent obscurity of a learned language argument!

Google asked me if I meant 'descent obscurity....' when I was checking this, not being familiar with the quote/concept.

When I read your first comment pointing out what had been included which you felt should not have been it did set me wondering to what extent one can be guilty by association rather than conscious knowledge. I am not a Latin scholar, I would not think to find a translation of the text in the context of that particular programme, taking it at face-value as a consideration of music associated with Mary Magdelene. It's left me feeling somewhat uneasy, possibly because of my general difficulty with Christianity and a more specific issue of two Jewish family members(one my family, one in-laws) 'acquired' as a result of WW2.
Bad case of overthinking I suspect!

[doversoul1]

Sorry to interrupt the discussion but this is the full work of the first item (1 of 2) if anyone is interested.

Alessandro Scarlatti
La Maddalena penitente (Sinfonia No.1) (excerpt)
Ensemble: Europa Galante. Director: Fabio Biondi

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6uH1KcNvD0

I very much enjoyed the programme but the playlist doesn’t seem to be terribly helpful.

[ed.] Bother. There used to be 2/2 but it seems to have disappeared.

[Miles Coverdale]

That might be a good reason if that was what was done in the recording we heard - but it isn't.

.

Alright, let me put it this way: the piece in question (the medieval liturgical drama Quem queritis) is clearly quoting from Victime paschali laudes and obviously pre-dates the Council of Trent, and is therefore using the 'unexpurgated' text.

[jean]

Except that the extract from Victimae Paschali is not presented as a quote from the medieval liturgical drama Quem queritis or anything else - it features as one of a group of pieces put together for the programme, and all we're told is that its author was Wipo of Burgundy (who is generally credited with the words).

[jean]

Sorry to interrupt the discussion...

Sorry to have let it take over!

I very much enjoyed the programme but the playlist doesn’t seem to be terribly helpful.

It must be one of the worst ever.