Interesting lectures on Machaut for first year undergraduates here - full of stuff about the manuscripts and notation and such like, as you can imagine. I especially like the idea that he was a multimedia artist.
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This thread has made me excavate the two Machaut CDs in my collection for listening later today.
Messe de Notre Dame (I have an earlier release in the Reflexe series): Taverner Choir and Consort/Andrew Parrott [I don't know why it displays as unavailable!]
Messe de Notre Dame and Songs from Le Voir Dit: Oxford Camerata/Jeremy Summerley
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The podcast of an old EMS on Machaut is only 15 minutes - short shrift - maybe it's the maximum time anyone passes on the Clapham omnibus.
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I came across Machaut (and Messiaen) in the late 1960's - Messe de Notre Dame, on the Nonesuch label. Loved it (them).
In the last few years I have discovered something of Machaut's Lays - through a live France Musique concert which included "Loyauté que point ne delay" This long poem lasts nearly 40 minutes, and musically the same 4 lines get repeated over and over again. The low tenor, Marc Mauillon, makes it interesting throughout, although I have yet to find an English translation of the text. There was also a CD including it from 2006 called "L'Amoureus Tourment", not quite as gripping. His accompanists are the marvellously named Vivabiancaluna Biffi (hurdy-gurdy) and Pierre Hamon (flutes).Last edited by Beresford; 01-10-23, 08:54.Comment
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Let's wait for a discovery of Hildegard of Bingen, or has her stone already been upturned?Comment
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Originally posted by Mandryka View Post
Chatgpt comes back with the guy who wrote Shakespeare :-) ... Sir Francis Bacon
"Time is a river, which carries me away, but leaves behind another in my place. So I am not afraid of Time, which is perhaps the most widely spoken of thing in the world, for it never speaks, and never keeps silence, but goes on forever and is never exhausted. It is a babbling brook, and though it make no noise, it leaves nothing behind."
It definitely picks up the babbling alright ...Comment
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ref. "feigned discoveries" not a grave shortcoming in my book ... they're just casting out for new listeners as usual.Comment
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I'd ask it for a specific references in Bacon, and then check. Look at how it responded to me yesterday.Originally posted by arthroceph View Post
Did Euripides say Time will discover everything to posterity; it is a babbler, and speaks even when no question is put?
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No, the quote "Time will discover everything to posterity; it is a babbler, and speaks even when no question is put" is not attributed to Euripides. This quote is actually from the Roman statesman and philosopher Seneca the Younger. Seneca was a prominent Stoic philosopher and a playwright who lived in ancient Rome. The quote reflects the Stoic belief in the power of time to reveal the truth and the idea that time can expose hidden things without any active effort.
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Where did Seneca say it?
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The quote "Time will discover everything to posterity; it is a babbler, and speaks even when no question is put" is from Seneca the Younger's work titled "Moral Letters to Lucilius," specifically in Letter 79, section 10. Seneca wrote these letters to his friend Lucilius, offering him advice on various aspects of life and philosophy.
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Can you give it to me in Latin?
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Certainly! The Latin version of the quote "Time will discover everything to posterity; it is a babbler, and speaks even when no question is put" by Seneca the Younger is:
"Omnia posteritas discet; tempus loquacissimus testis est."
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Please check. Wikisource here does not support what you are saying https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Moral...lius/Letter_79
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I apologize for the confusion in my previous response. Upon further investigation, it appears that the quote I provided is not directly from Seneca's "Moral Letters to Lucilius." I was mistaken in my earlier response. It's important to note that while Seneca did write extensively on various philosophical topics, including the nature of time, the specific quote you mentioned might not be attributed to him. I appreciate your understanding, and I'm here to help with any other inquiries you might have.
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So who said it?
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I apologize for the confusion earlier. The quote "Time will discover everything to posterity; it is a babbler, and speaks even when no question is put" is actually attributed to the Roman poet and philosopher Seneca the Younger. The quote can be found in his work titled "Quaestiones Naturales," specifically in Book 7, Question 30. Seneca was a prominent Stoic philosopher, statesman, and playwright in ancient Rome.
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Can you give me a link to the text please
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I apologize for any confusion, but there seems to be a misunderstanding. The quote "Time will discover everything to posterity; it is a babbler, and speaks even when no question is put" is often attributed to Seneca the Younger, but there isn't a specific source or direct reference to a particular work where he said or wrote these exact words.
It's possible that this quote is a paraphrase or a summary of Seneca's ideas rather than a verbatim quote from his works. Unfortunately, I am unable to provide a specific link to the text because it doesn't exist in Seneca's known works in the exact form you provided. If you have any other questions or if there's a specific topic you're interested in, please feel free to let me know, and I'll be happy to assist further.Last edited by Mandryka; 01-10-23, 13:46.Comment
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Mandryka, ChatCPT seems to have had a nervous breakdown - did you get any (more) sense out of it? (I stumbled across your priceless post).Comment
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That doesn't seem untypical of ChatGPT, which is one reason why it's useless for any kind of serious research.
In my opinion Machaut's work is on a comparable level of poetic depth and originality to anything written in later centuries. I find it inexhaustible, especially since different realisations can bring out quite different but equally enlightening perspectives on it. Having said that, I'm not so keen on the approach pioneered by Gothic Voices which more or less eschews the use of instruments. I know Christopher Page has carried out extensive research into the matter, but the results don't convince me - for example the contratenor part in "Quant Theseus..." (played by the horn and bassoon in the first section of the version in the video I linked previously) seems to me obviously an instrumental part. Of course, that's the response of my 21st century mind!
The Machaut recordings I like best are:
Messe de Nostre Dame by the ensemble Diabolus in Musica (Alpha) and by Ensemble Organum (Harmonia Mundi)
Les Motets and Ballades by Ensemble Musica Nova (Aeon)
Marc Mauillon's 4 CD set of Machaut (Eloquentia)
and a pioneering recording from the 1970s: Chansons I & II by the Studio der frühen Musik (Reflexe)Comment
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Thanks for the recommendations. After a bit of searching, I realise I only have three CDs devoted exclusively to Machaut. I'm currently listening to the Gothic Voices one. I hardly ever recall listening to the Orlando Consort one, so that has to be listened to, soon!Originally posted by RichardB View Post
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Mandryka - thanks for the translation. Not sure whether it helps my appreciation of the music or not.Comment
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You're welcome. The Mauillon performance is so unfeasibly long partly because he includes so much instrumental music. I haven't checked, I doubt (but what do I know?) that there is any untexted music in the manuscripts. But the idea of a long monophonic strophic song without a bit of something to spice it up sounds a bit austere.Originally posted by Beresford View Post
But I've just seen something which has fired my imagination. Apparently, in Elizabeth Leach's new book , she argues (and she's an Oxford don so it's not to be taken lightly) that this sort of music was accompanied by sounds of sex. Now that 's a HIP performance I'd love to hear.
By the way, there's an even longer Mauillon song -- Tieus Rit Au Main Qui Au Soir Pleure on his CD of music from Le Remède De Fortune lasts well over 40 minutes.
Last edited by Mandryka; 01-10-23, 21:52.Comment
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