[L']Orfeo in English: Opera on 3 Monday 2 March

[Flosshilde]

the translation they're using for this particular production may well be different from the one they're asked to use in an Opera North/Welsh/Scottish Opera/whoever production of Orfeo - which proudly advertises the "new translation" that the production has commissioned!

I don't think any of those companies sing in English translation as a rule

[Bryn]

I don't think any of those companies sing in English translation as a rule

The only Opera North productions which immediately spring to my mind were of Martinu's Juliettta, and of Shostakovich's Cheryomushki, both of which used English translations.

[doversoul1]

I would have thought performing in translation would be an option when singers are adequately, if nor perfectly secure in performing in the original language of the work.

As floss says in #12

how they experience the drama

In opera, surely this should certainly need to be experienced and learned in the original language with the music first? In the same way as a good translator being always a good writer in his/her own language. It won’t work otherwise.

Mind you, we don’t know how well these singers are trained in the original language, but I was surprised to find that this performance was by young (I assume starting) singers. Maybe things have moved on and I am old fashioned, out of touch, live in the past etc..

Also, I am thinking mostly in Baroque operas and the issue may be quite different in later works.

[jean]

It's possible to understand and sing in a language without having reached quite the level that would enable you to write in it or translate into it adequately yourself.

[doversoul1]

This is interesting from the point of this discussion.

Hungarian baritone, Gyula Orendt sings the title role
[ed] this is pointed out by gurnemanz in #7

The use of English did not greatly aid comprehension of what was being sung and surtitles were provided. Also, Orfeo, Gyula Orendt, is not a native speaker of English

So the point of translation is...?

It's possible to understand and sing in a language without having reached quite the level that would enable you to write in it or translate into it adequately yourself.

That’s what I understand. In case I didn’t make it clear, I meant being able to perform adequately in the original language of the work, and not becoming an adequate user of the language.

[antongould]

I have found this discussion fascinating but arriving here from a Paul Simon, Bob Dylan et al background understanding and appreciating the "words" has always been vitally important. Perhaps this is why I struggle to find an "in" to opera? In the meantime should I ask Lady Gould to stop singing Gigliola Cinquetti(?)'s Go in English and go Italian?

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Singing in the original language can sometimes sound ridiculous. Here is Gigli in glorious voice, singing Sullivan's The Lost Chord.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_F8O4xfB8Bg

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Yeah, but even a native can sound equally ridiculous in that repertoire:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxMVEwqnQEE

[doversoul1]

Once a friend who had a young daughter asked me how to say 'Daddy loves you' in Japanese. I said we didn’t say that in Japanese. He wasn’t convinced so I said ‘well, a father might say to his daughter something like “you are a very good child’’. My friend said that wasn’t what he wanted to say. He wanted to tell his baby daughter that he loved her.

Yes I know but we just don’t say it.
Do you mean you don’t tell your children that you love them?
Well… I don’t think we actually say that.
I don’t believe it. How can you not say it if you love them?

In the end, I feigned ignorance and translated the sentence for him. After all, he wasn’t going to use it in Japan so why not….

I think when we read a translated novel, it isn’t too difficult to adjust our mind to the strangeness but when it is emphasised by singing, especially in the way Baroque operas do, to me, it just gets in the way of the music.

Come to think of it, all this may be just a problem of linguists’ occupational disease.

[Flosshilde]

This is interesting from the point of this discussion.

Hungarian baritone, Gyula Orendt sings the title role
[ed] this is pointed out by gurnemanz in #7

That’s what I understand. In case I didn’t make it clear, I meant being able to perform adequately in the original language of the work, and not becoming an adequate user of the language.

Gyula Orendt is speaking at the moment - his command of English is impeccable, with just a very slight accent.

[Flosshilde]

It sounded great - a performance that would have been good to have been at. The words were very clear, & it was a pleasure to be able to follow the story.