Edward VI and Hampton Court - EMS Sun 11th Jan

[ardcarp]

Following all the Tudore Stuffe on BBC2 we have an interesting EMS

Lucie Skeaping visits Hampton Court Palace to find out about the music written during the short, but eventful reign of King Edward VI. She traces Edward's story from cradle to grave with guest contributor Michele Price - manager of the choral foundation at Hampton Court Palace.

[Sign of the times that the choral foundation needs a 'manager']

[doversoul1]

I don’t know what is it but there was something very heartfelt-ness about this programme. I could have been listening to Lucie and her guest Michele Price talking, and the music, all night.

Just in case:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04xrppx

[Gordon]

Agreed, a good listen on a dull Sunday afternoon. Also brought out what an unfortunate family the Tudors were. Made one ponder many "what ifs" and how the 16th century, and all subsequent ones, would have been had the luck of Bosworth held and Catherine had produced some boys. Never really sure whether to feel sympathy for Henry VIII or not.

[ardcarp]

A most interesting programme, though it showed, sadly, how 'the glory departed' from church music. The 'English' works by Tye, Farrant et al are really quite dull compared with just a few years earlier. (BTW, why was Lord for thy tender mercies' sake, known by almost every chorister surely, described by Lucy as a verse anthem?) The programme linked in very well with the Starkey/Worsley programme on BBC2 last night.

feel sympathy for Henry VIII ?

only in respect of the composers who flourished in his reign...definitely before the glory departed.

[Gordon]

Forgive my ignorance, but was the dullness a result of Edward's reforms or just the composers he had available? I'd guess that Edward's [or that of his advising Council] was a more austere Protestantism than his father's who was not a full convert it would seem and so a captive of his own making.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Agreed, a good listen on a dull Sunday afternoon. Also brought out what an unfortunate family the Tudors were. Made one ponder many "what ifs" and how the 16th century, and all subsequent ones, would have been had the luck of Bosworth held and Catherine had produced some boys. Never really sure whether to feel sympathy for Henry VIII or not.

Not! As crass a tyrant as Stalin.

Now, if older brother Arthur had lived ... there's another "what if"!

[ardcarp]

but was the dullness a result of Edward's reforms...?

Oh yes. Nothing wrong with the composers. They just toe-ed the line. The interesting person (not involved in this programme) was John Taverner who it is thought became an ardent protestant before mid-century and quit church music altogether. Elizabeth was less ardent and possibly enjoyed some aspects of Catholic worhip in her private chapels...and allowed Tallis and Byrd to survive musically and bodily.

[Miles Coverdale]

The interesting person (not involved in this programme) was John Taverner who it is thought became an ardent protestant before mid-century and quit church music altogether.

Not necessarily. The well-known quote from Fox's Acts and Monuments that Taverner came ‘to repent him very much that he had made songs to popish ditties in the time of his blindness’ needs to be interpreted with care. First, Fox was an ardent Protestant and may have been overstating his case. Second, ‘popish ditties’ may just refer to votive antiphons such as Gaude plurimum rather than church music in general.

[ardcarp]

Thanks for the correction, MC. I fear my scholarship (such as it ever was) is woefully out of date. Having quickly referred to the OCP, I find, "It now seems unlikely that Taverner was ever actively involved in Lutheran heresy or the persecution of Roman Catholics, as earlier biographies have suggested..."

Interesting bloke, though. Strange that a seminal figure (e.g. the In Nomine and all that) should have gone off the radar in his later life.