Early Music at Saturday Lunchtimes ...

[vinteuil]

. This company, STIL, had some strange copyright law which meant that the recording could never be re-issued, if I remember correctly. .

... clearly STIL were sometimes tricky to deal with. The JE Gardiner les Boréades on erato begins its accompanying booklet with the surprising para :

"Still [sic] Editions have made it impossible for us to print the "Boréades" libretto, firstly by forbidding its translation and secondly by demanding, for its reproduction in French, very high royalties on each chest [sic = box set ] even though the work is protected and this editor is paid for editing it by copyright companies. We would like to present our apologies to music-lovers"

[Pegleg]

...as the piece is full of some wonderful music.

There's no no argument about that ... But understanding of Zais remains on a rather superficial level. Listening to "music matters" there's many hidden (to me) depths in this complex piece and the "Rameau Project" performance deserves the widest possible audience.

[MickyD]

... clearly STIL were sometimes tricky to deal with. The JE Gardiner les Boréades on erato begins its accompanying booklet with the surprising para :

"Still [sic] Editions have made it impossible for us to print the "Boréades" libretto, firstly by forbidding its translation and secondly by demanding, for its reproduction in French, very high royalties on each chest [sic = box set ] even though the work is protected and this editor is paid for editing it by copyright companies. We would like to present our apologies to music-lovers"

Oh yes, I remember that entry in the booklet, Vints. Very strange. STIL also produced what I think must have been one of the first Chopin discs on a period piano. I wonder if they still (pardon the pun) exist, and if that recording of Zais is destined to be locked in a vault for years to come? Did you get a copy of it during the 80s, like me?

[vinteuil]

Did you get a copy of it during the 80s, like me?

... sadly, no, Micky. You can retain bragging rights on that... :green-with-envy-emoticon:


[ tho' I do have the STIL Scott Ross Couperin and Rameau... ]


... irritatingly, I sat next to Alain Villain, the founder of STIL, at a supper at the British Embassy in 1994. If I'd had my wits about me I cd easily have scrounged a copy of 'Zais'...



.

[doversoul1]

The Rameau Project

More information to add to the interview on Music Matters

http://www.music.ox.ac.uk/research/projects/oae-rameau/

Areas of investigation
[…] Dancers will be recruited and trained to form a troupe able to perform historically-informed choreography seldom seen in productions today, with the ultimate goal of restoring the intimate partnership of Rameau’s music and the dance steps for which it was conceived […]

Outcomes (include)
- Modern premières in new editions, semi-staged, and featuring Baroque choreography, of 4 major operas: Les Fêtes d’Hébé (1739), Zaïs (1748), Zoroastre (1749) and Les Boréades (1763)
- Recordings to be released commercially
- BBC Radio 3 broadcasts and feature programmes, public lectures and pre-concert talks

Let’s hope there will be no more (for awhile at least) modern dancers in underwear and a stepmother raging in a semi-detached house.

[MickyD]

... sadly, no, Micky. You can retain bragging rights on that... :green-with-envy-emoticon:


[ tho' I do have the STIL Scott Ross Couperin and Rameau... ]


... irritatingly, I sat next to Alain Villain, the founder of STIL, at a supper at the British Embassy in 1994. If I'd had my wits about me I cd easily have scrounged a copy of 'Zais'...



.

How fascinating, Vints...it was a BBC R3 producer friend who very kindly thought to bring me back a copy from Paris in the 80s..I am eternally grateful to him. Could make you a copy on CD if you like.

[doversoul1]

Phantasm and Daniel Hyde: 3 May

Consort music by William Lawes, John Jenkins and Thomas Tomkins, performed by Phantasm with organist Daniel Hyde, at St Agnes of Bohemia Convent, Prague recorded earlier this year.

No playlist.

[Pegleg]

Consort music by William Lawes, John Jenkins and Thomas Tomkins, performed by Phantasm with organist Daniel Hyde, at St Agnes of Bohemia Convent, Prague recorded earlier this year.

No playlist.

According to this: http://pmpif.org/?p=2489 the concert programme was:

Phantasm
Laurence Dreyfus, treble viol and director
Emilia Benjamin, treble viol
Jonathan Manson, tenor viol
Emily Ashton, tenor viol
Mikko Perkola, bass viol
Markku Luolajan-Mikkola, bass viol

with Daniel Hyde, organ

WILLIAM LAWES AND OTHER ECCENTRICS
William Lawes (1602-1645) Consort Sett II a5 in a
Fantazy
Fantazy
Aire

John Jenkins (1592-1678) Pavan No. 2 a6 in F
Fantasy No.8 a6 in a

William Lawes Consort Sett VIII a6 in F
Aire
Fantazy
Aire
Fantazy

Thomas Tomkins (1572-1656) Fantasia 17 a6
Pavan and Galliard a6
William Lawes Consort Sett X a6 in c
Fantazy
Fantazy
Inominy
Aire

Orlando Gibbons (1583-1625) In Nomine a5
Go from my Window a6
William Lawes Consort Sett VIII a6 in g
Paven
Fantazy
Aire

What we will actually hear, is another matter. Intresting to see the BBC say it was Gary Cooper on Organ and not Daniel Hyde.

[ardcarp]

What a lovely Saturday slot this was (Phantasm and Daniel Hyde). I'm passionate about viol consort music of this period, and if I want to relax completely or need mental consolation, it is the sound of viols that does it for me. This time I was painting the deck of a boat in a (previously) tranquil creek in glorious sunshine. So not my usual listening post, and one punctuated by the occasional bubbling cry of an oystercatcher in flight.

I'm intrigued by the collaboration (based around Magdalen) between DH and Phantasm. Whilst I enjoyed the programme hugely, I was not always sure that the organ (superbly and sensitively played as one would expect) combined happily with the viols. Music of that ilk (i.e. imitative contrapuntal lines) is equally at home on viols, voices or keyboard. If any two are combined there is just a doubling of parts. Whilst voices + viols and voices + organ seem made for each other, viols + organ seem less convincing, especially the doubling of the top treble viol part by the organ. It seemed unnecessary for a start, but because of the very different attack of the two instruments (the chamber organ sudden, the viol gradual) however unanimous the players were (and they were) there seemed a mis-match. I'n sure there must be historical reasons for this practice (of which I am unaware) but frankly, I preferred the bits where DH and Phantasm were playing separately.

All the above sounds negative, but it was a lovely programme...so thanks R3 for keeping alive the EMS slot in plain clothes.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b042bdd2

[doversoul1]

Les Cyclopes at Utrecht EMF 10 May

A concert from the Utrecht Early Music Festival recorded last August in the Pieterskerk, Utrecht in the Netherlands, performed by the French based Baroque Ensemble
Les Cyclopes co-directed from the keyboard by Thierry Maeder (organ) and Bibiane Lapointe (harpsichord).

The music includes works by 17th century composers Antonio Bertali, Andreas Hofer, Matthias Weckmann and Johann Jacob Froberger.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b042z6dk

[doversoul1]

A very interesting programme excellently performed. I thought the bass was most impressive.

[DracoM]

Yes, a big wide open voice production by the bass with all manner of over- and under tones in his voice.

Q: how much of the religious baroque music we heard would have been performed by women and how much by boys? Always intrigued me. One of the singers in today's recital was as close to the timbres of a mature boy treble as I've heard in years. Or of course castrato maybe?

[Black Swan]

I agree with doversoul. It is to bad the playlist hasn't been posted..... as usual.

[doversoul1]

Q: how much of the religious baroque music we heard would have been performed by women and how much by boys? Always intrigued me. One of the singers in today's recital was as close to the timbres of a mature boy treble as I've heard in years. Or of course castrato maybe?

I feel pretty silly posting this knowing that this forum is a nest of super-experts on the subject but they don’t always seem to look in here. So here goes.

There was a discussion on (I think) the old Radio3 MB about who sang the alto in Bach’s cantatas in the ‘original’ performances. Someone explained that in those days, boys’ voice did not break until they were much older than it does now. Consequently, there were many boys who had unbroken voice but physical strength of adult and very likely, mature understanding of the music. Also, there was a programme not very long ago about choirboys (I think) on which the famous Ernest Lough’s ‘O for the Wings…’ was played and the presenter (or a guest) commented that Lough’s voice sounded more like a woman’s than anything we thought as boy treble today. Wasn’t Lough 15 or 16 at the time of the recording?

In Italy, from what I understand, those operatic superstars were exceptions amongst many thousands of castrati. Churches that were strong / rich enough to have their own choir would probably have had their own castrati in the choir.

It looks as if nobody needed women for church music.

I’d be very happy to be corrected.

Black Swan

It is to bad the playlist hasn't been posted

I know. It is terribly frustrating. Where’s pegleg who usually finds the reference for us?

[subcontrabass]

I feel pretty silly posting this knowing that this forum is a nest of super-experts on the subject but they don’t always seem to look in here. So here goes.

There was a discussion on (I think) the old Radio3 MB about who sang the alto in Bach’s cantatas in the ‘original’ performances. Someone explained that in those days, boys’ voice did not break until they were much older than it does now. Consequently, there were many boys who had unbroken voice but physical strength of adult and very likely, mature understanding of the music. Also, there was a programme not very long ago about choirboys (I think) on which the famous Ernest Lough’s ‘O for the Wings…’ was played and the presenter (or a guest) commented that Lough’s voice sounded more like a woman’s than anything we thought as boy treble today. Wasn’t Lough 15 or 16 at the time of the recording?

In Italy, from what I understand, those operatic superstars were exceptions amongst many thousands of castrati. Churches that were strong / rich enough to have their own choir would probably have had their own castrati in the choir.

It looks as if nobody needed women for church music.

I’d be very happy to be corrected.

My understanding of things agrees basically with yours. There are, however, a few cases where women would/might have sung in church. In convents the nuns would have sung, and there are medieval polyphonic (as well as monophonic) compositions explicitly written for such singers. Also, in post-Reformation England, it is not clear (at least to me) who sang at recusant masses. Did the singers include female members of the recusant families (and possibly female servants)?