"The Bridge" - Season 4 on BBC2

[Stunsworth]

I thought episodes 5 and 6 this weekend were some of the best TV I've ever see.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I thought episodes 5 and 6 this weekend were some of the best TV I've ever see.

They were good, weren't they! I almost regreted the "two-episode-in-one-evening" idea last night: imagine the frisson of having to wait a week to see what happened after the end of episode five!

[Stunsworth]

...imagine the frisson of having to wait a week to see what happened after the end of episode five!

The same thought went through my mind.

[Nick Armstrong]

I thought episodes 5 and 6 this weekend were some of the best TV I've ever see.

Agreed - they juggle dark, light, funny, surreal (the tableau of the dying business woman, camp little brother and silent private sushi chef) and deliver new characters and plot twists almost nonchalantly...

-SPOILER DELETED-

[DracoM]

Brewing up for an intriguingly complex tale. Almost the best thing on telly at the mo.

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

for me it is the best thing on telly at the moment but i am open to suggestions

i love Martin's work on Jens - to make him feel again so he can know and regret his murders

i had not spotted the sister's infidelity [alleged by her to win a job]

and golly Saga tells Martin that people do not think she can be hurt - my eyes moistened ... and then acts with decisive and bravura determination in her hotel room ...

such a joy innit?

[aeolium]

Sorry to be a voice of dissent but I am far less enthusiastic about this series.

[SPOILER ALERT]

I thought in the first series, and I still think in this one, that the underlying concept behind it of having a lead detective who has no real understanding of human motivation, emotions, reactions other than what she had gleaned by reading would in practice be a catastrophic handicap, an elementary inability to "read" the psychology of suspects or witnesses. Additionally it would make it extremely difficult for that detective to operate as a lead member of a team, as she would be regularly irritating and demotivating colleagues and bosses (as indeed is shown from time to time). An example is where she threatens to report the junior detective for not following proper procedure in obtaining his results, yet she does exactly the same thing in following up her theory of a case of Munchausen's Syndrome by Proxy being responsible for the illness of Martin's son - she breaks into someone's house without a warrant (and MSbP is an extremely controversial diagnosis which in this country has led to several miscarriages of justice, e.g. that of Sally Clark).

Martin appears to be a mere cypher as a detective, his main role being as a vehicle for the exploration of his psychological issues with his family and with Jens, and as a foil for Saga.

There is the baroque plotting, whereby, as in the first series, red herring subplots are introduced largely as a device to throw the viewer off the scent - this seems an inevitable corollary of longer series to allow them to last the course. One of the more implausible ones was the copycat eco-terrorist group attempting to abduct Noren, a ludicrous idea. And characters are developed to involve the viewer - like those of the first eco-terrorist group who ended up poisoned, and the younger brother of one of them - and then simply vanish from the plotline to be replaced by others.

Another aspect of both series that has not attracted comment is its dubious message. In the first series, gruesome murders seemed to be committed by someone or a group identified with commitment to progressive social campaigns. In the second series, there are not one but perhaps several eco-terrorist groups committed to inflict destruction on the community in pursuit of their campaign to bring ecological failings to public attention. The underlying message of The Bridge seems therefore to be: people committed to campaigns for social justice and environmental concern are likely to be homicidal fanatics.

It's certainly watchable, and there is precious little in home-made drama to impress on TV atm, but I think it's basically hokum. It seems as though as long as there are Scandinavian accents, desolate Nordic landscapes and (above all) attractive Scandinavian women on the screen, then everyone will fall down in uncritical praise. Sorry to disappoint.

[clive heath]

Chomsky notwithstanding, if a message is what you seek, it may be that" some people committed to campaigns for social justice and environmental concern are likely to be homicidal fanatics." There is some evidence for this.

Why Animal Rights Activists Bombarded Terminally Ill Woman With Death Threats, Vile Comments... headline from "Blaze"

Irate Animal Rights Activists Bombard Dying Girl With Hate Mail, Death Threats.... headline from "Independent Journal Review"

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

It's certainly watchable, and there is precious little in home-made drama to impress on TV atm, but I think it's basically hokum. It seems as though as long as there are Scandinavian accents, desolate Nordic landscapes and (above all) attractive Scandinavian women on the screen, then everyone will fall down in uncritical praise. Sorry to disappoint.

I don't know about your "disappointing" anyone, aeolie - but you do sound as if you're patronizing them with this last paragraph. Perhaps others have understood/appreciated it better than have you. Or maybe, some of us rather enjoy the Baroque.

[aeolium]

I don't know about your "disappointing" anyone, aeolie - but you do sound as if you're patronizing them with this last paragraph. Perhaps others have understood/appreciated it better than have you. Or maybe, some of us rather enjoy the Baroque.

Perhaps it was a bit harsh, ferney, but it just seems as though every TV drama that comes over from Scandinavia is greeted with universal acclaim. I think some are better than others (the first series of The Killing excellent, the first series of Borgen also) and this particular series hasn't impressed me. Clearly others have enjoyed it more than I but do you think the specific points I make are wrong?

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I think you're certainly right about the inconsistency in Saga's breaking-in to Martin's house - the very first time we met her in series one, she reported Martin for a breach of protocol, just as she means to report the idiot boy detective on Saturday. MSP is controversial, but I think we're being given hints about Saga's past with this aspect of the story - along with the emerging picture of her sister's suicide.

I think your statement about Martin "appearing to be a mere cypher as a detective" also rings true, up to this point in the plot. But your further assessment "his main role being as a vehicle for the exploration of his psychological issues with his family and with Jens, and as a foil for Saga" suggests that these "main roles" are considerable - I suspect that his encounters with Jens are going to be fundamental to his (part in) solving the plot.

Another aspect of both series that has not attracted comment is its dubious message. In the first series, gruesome murders seemed to be committed by someone or a group identified with commitment to progressive social campaigns. In the second series, there are not one but perhaps several eco-terrorist groups committed to inflict destruction on the community in pursuit of their campaign to bring ecological failings to public attention. The underlying message of The Bridge seems therefore to be: people committed to campaigns for social justice and environmental concern are likely to be homicidal fanatics.

Here I believe that you have oversimplified the issue - in Series One, the "gruesome murders" were very definitely not committed by anyone "commited to campaigns for social justice and environmental concerns" but by a disillusioned ex-cop. Nobody deduced from this that the "message" ("dubious", "underlying" or otherwise) was that "people committed to the police force are likely to be homicidal fanatics".

In the current series, distance has been clearly established between the genuine Eco groups and the extremists (Mads was expelled from the Eco group because of his sadistic tendencies) - and there is even further distinction within the extremist terrorist cell between the violent and those pulled into their orbit. (And further between the idiot copy-cat duo who tried to kidnap Saga.) Again, I suspect that the "mother-of-three" has nothing to do with campaigns for social justice and environmental concerns, but is instead using such groups as a front.

As for the Baroque - well, that's a matter of preference: I love the machinations of the plot, where leads are suggested, shown to be false, then revealed to be right after all. What the writers are doing (splendidly, in my view) is presenting possibilities to guide and mislead the viewer - it's a detective story: that's what they do! And who has "disappeared"? The series ain't over yet: there are four hours for the younger brother (and his bullies) to reappear.

There are weaknesses in this second series - I mentioned the increased emphasis on comedy last week - that weren't there in the first; but the overall narration, the unfolding of the mystery, and the relationships between the characters are all so successful - much more important than the scenery and Saga's looks.


But there you go. Have you sampled Hinterland at all, aeolie?

[aeolium]

Here I believe that you have oversimplified the issue - in Series One, the "gruesome murders" were very definitely not committed by anyone "commited to campaigns for social justice and environmental concerns" but by a disillusioned ex-cop. Nobody deduced from this that the "message" ("dubious", "underlying" or otherwise) was that "people committed to the police force are likely to be homicidal fanatics".

No, but given that the killer went to such inordinate lengths to make his violent campaign one of highlighting social injustice (using a journalist to publicise it) then the viewer would have had to conclude that these were extremely elaborate red herrings if the killer was entirely cynical about the issues. And in this series the eco gang that was wiped out was surely sincere about its campaign (which included murder)?

Anyway, as you say the series is not yet over and we will see what transpires. Thanks anyway for your well-argued points.

Have you sampled Hinterland at all, aeolie?

Unfortunately not. It's only available in Wales, isn't it?

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Unfortunately not. It's only available in Wales, isn't it?

Via the i-Player, for us Saesnigs, too

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b03pn6hg/Hinterland_Hinterland_Episode_1/

EDIT: This isn't a mega-series, but are one-off, 90-minute dramas - more like Wallander than The Killing.

[Anna]

Via the i-Player, for us Saesnigs, too

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b03pn6hg/Hinterland_Hinterland_Episode_1/

EDIT: This isn't a mega-series, but are one-off, 90-minute dramas - more like Wallander than The Killing.

Yes, I'm watching Hinterland and another dysfunctional detective, evidently it's scheduled to be on BBC4 later in the year. There are 8x90 minute episodes, but I think it may be broadcast in two blocks of 4.

Back to the enjoyable hokum that is The Bridge. We never saw what the tattoo was - could it be a toad? Who poisoned Claudio - Viktoria's brother knew Bodil was to publish the autobiography so he knew Viktoria slept with Claudio. When Julian was poisoned he was the fourth on the spreadsheet and took the longest time to die, that's significant. Also, twice Saga has unzipped her trousers when alone - could she be pregnant?
Conspiracy theories on a postcard please!

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

how did her brother know Victoria slept with Claudio, she told Bodil? i am confused