Merchant Of Venice. BBC2 Tonight

[jean]

It's not antisemitic - it's far too subtle for that.

[Dave2002]

ah, so BC's of R3.

BC's???

[teamsaint]

BC's???

bleeding chunks......

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

It's not antisemitic - it's far too subtle for that.

Yes - it is (amongst many other things) "about" antisemitism, and Shylock is occasionally portrayed in stereotypical terms if the actor and/or director so chooses (the "Oh, my ducats; oh, my daughter" scene, for example) but on the whole those expressing antisemitic ideas are the least sympathetic characters, and Shylock's "Hath a Jew not eyes" speech is the most profound in the play (the "quality of mercy" is twee when compared with it). The fact that the antisemites "win", that Shylock's identity is crushed by the end of the play (showing that their enactment of "Justice" doesn't exactly live up their fine ideas about "mercy") makes for a profound theatrical experience for the audience.

Well, for the modern, post-Auschwitz audience. Shakespeare's contemporaries were possibly less disturbed by the "happy" ending. But it is "today's" audience that S_A referred to, and even by 16th/17th Century standards (compare Marlowe's Jew of Malta) Shylock (and Jubal) is a much more human figure than was the custom. (Mind you, Marlowe's Barabas is so obviously a caricature of the 16th Century "Jewish" stereotype that it seems to me to ridicule the very people who could be taken in by such crap.)

And, then again, Shakespeare, Marlowe and their contemporaries were creating characters from an ethnic/religious group that didn't exist in the England of the time, Edward I having expelled Jews from England in 1290. They were not allowed to return until 1656, during the Interregnum.

[Serial_Apologist]

Yes - it is (amongst many other things) "about" antisemitism, and Shylock is occasionally portrayed in stereotypical terms if the actor and/or director so chooses (the "Oh, my ducats; oh, my daughter" scene, for example) but on the whole those expressing antisemitic ideas are the least sympathetic characters, and Shylock's "Hath a Jew not eyes" speech is the most profound in the play (the "quality of mercy" is twee when compared with it). The fact that the antisemites "win", that Shylock's identity is crushed by the end of the play (showing that their enactment of "Justice" doesn't exactly live up their fine ideas about "mercy") makes for a profound theatrical experience for the audience.

Well, for the modern, post-Auschwitz audience. Shakespeare's contemporaries were possibly less disturbed by the "happy" ending. But it is "today's" audience that S_A referred to, and even by 16th/17th Century standards (compare Marlowe's Jew of Malta) Shylock (and Jubal) is a much more human figure than was the custom. (Mind you, Marlowe's Barabas is so obviously a caricature of the 16th Century "Jewish" stereotype that it seems to me to ridicule the very people who could be taken in by such crap.)

And, then again, Shakespeare, Marlowe and their contemporaries were creating characters from an ethnic/religious group that didn't exist in the England of the time, Edward I having expelled Jews from England in 1290. They were not allowed to return until 1656, during the Interregnum.

Most helpful thanks, ferney.

[Rue Dubac]

Didn't Arnold Wesker do a pro-Shylock version?
Most of the characters are fairly unpleasant, I think. Bassanio is a playboy using other people's money, Jessica and Lorenzo callous, and even the sainted Portia mouths about mercy before putting the knife in. It certainly shows the anti-semitism of the period - which is not the same in my view as being an anti-semitic play.

[Dave2002]

bleeding chunks......

Thanks - much clearer now.

Retires, gently pointing out that the apostrophe is not needed ... IMO (BC's ->BCs).

bws

My attempts to catch this failed, as the video recorder thingy (PVR) managed to screw up again. It's done this quite a few times recently. Maybe look for this on LoveFilm - probably won't have time to catch up on iPlayer.

The backlog of things to listen or watch just goes on increasing. I hope those who did see it, or record it, have enjoyed/are enjoying it.

[teamsaint]

never fear, D2K+2, the tube rides to the rescue. or whatever !!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bZWZEwY21Q

Its really good.

Thanks for the apostrophe advice, I tend to keep my best grammar for non board activities.

as for recording, stick to VCR....works for me !!

[Stanley Stewart]

Didn't Arnold Wesker do a pro-Shylock version?
Most of the characters are fairly unpleasant, I think. Bassanio is a playboy using other people's money, Jessica and Lorenzo callous, and even the sainted Portia mouths about mercy before putting the knife in. It certainly shows the anti-semitism of the period - which is not the same in my view as being an anti-semitic play.

Wesker certainly wrote a play based on The Merchant of Venice and subsequently wrote a memoir, The Birth of Shylock and the Death of Zero Mostel (1997 Quartet Books) which outlined the calamitous circumstances of mounting the production in New York. The back cover blurb:

In 1973 Arnold Wesker began writing SHYLOCK, a play based on stories used for The Merchant of Venice.
Wesker's challenging counter portrait of Shakespeare's notorious character was resisted in this country but found
support on Broadway where John Dexter, then Artistic Director of the Met. Opera, mounted a production with Zero
Mostel in the lead. The play seemed destined for success.

But after only one performance disaster struck - Zero Mostel died... its momentum had also been fatally damaged
and amidst recriminations and betrayals, it spiralled into disaster, ending seven years hard work and friendship
between Wesker and Dexter, the man who had found success with Wesker's first five plays. Moving, inspiring but
ultimately tragic, The Birth of Shylock and the Death of Zero Mostel is an unparalleled description of the progress of
a play.

I've just watched Michael Radford's 2004 film version of Shakespeare's play on hard disk this afternoon and it made a much better impression than I'd envisaged - the Venetian settings quite sumptuous. Memories, too, of Olivier's rage and resentment in the RNT production of the early 70s. His final exit in total humiliation followed by a blood -curdling cry from the wings of the Old Vic made many shiver in the auditorium.

[Bryn]

Surely the most positive Shylock was that wonderfully equivocal character given us by Warren Mitchel in the Miller/Gold version for the BBC?

[Stanley Stewart]

Indeed, Bryn. Warren Mitchell also played an extraordinary but ordinary guy as Willie Loman (Death of a Salesman) at the RNT - late 70s/early 80s - and the last time I saw him on stage was as a craggy, irascible Lear at West Yorkshire Playhouse in the 90s.
His range as an actor was always underestimated.

[Bryn]

Note that it was three Jewish atheists (all three associated closely with the BHA) who were responsible for Mitchell's Shylock.

[Dave2002]

never fear, D2K+2, the tube rides to the rescue. or whatever !!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bZWZEwY21Q

Its really good.

as for recording, stick to VCR....works for me !!

Thanks for the tip. I may try iPlayer first, though my brief glance at the YouTube suggested the quality was reasonably acceptable.

[Rue Dubac]

Thank you, Stanley S. I vaguely recall the hoo-ha at the time, seem to recall Wesker very disappointed that no production here. Also saw Olivier in early 70s, impressed.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Also saw Olivier in early 70s, impressed.

Another Jonathan Miller production, coincidentally.