King Ludwig II's castles - BBC4 tonight

[mercia]

I guess if one is interested in Wagner one might also be interested in King Ludwig II and his castles

BBC4 9pm tonight - not sure if it's a repeat

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b036f9vc

I expect forumites are already acquainted with Neuschwanstein, Linderhof and Herrenchiemsee

[Flosshilde]

I expect forumites are already acquainted with Neuschwanstein, Linderhof and Herrenchiemsee

Not personally, unfortunately.

Hopefully it will be repeated next week when I'm visiting my mother & can watch TV.

[mercia]

Hopefully it will be repeated next week when I'm visiting my mother & can watch TV.

do you not like watching things on the iPlayer, where I'm sure it will be available from tomorrow - not ideal but better than nothing

[Petrushka]

Thanks for the alert. I went round Neuschwanstein and Linderhof as long ago as 1987. The interior of Neuschwanstein is nothing like as breathtaking as the exterior, rather dark and gloomy as I remember it but a fascinating day, nonetheless. Went to Berchtesgaden and Hitler's Eagle's Nest the next day and the views were truly spectacular.

[Flosshilde]

do you not like watching things on the iPlayer, where I'm sure it will be available from tomorrow

not ideal, I agree, but better than nothing

Whenever I've tried the programme proceeds in fits & starts, & the commentary usually ends up well ahead of the pictures. A half hour programme can easily last an hour.

[Richard Tarleton]

Fascinating programme, if you manage to ignore DC's mannerisms - they're getting more eccentric - cf Patrick Moore, Magnus Pike, David Bellamy, Waldemar Januscak - the loud stage whisper rather exhausting.....Also some odd pronunciation - why Bar-varia? Tannhowser?

I had not appreciated the extent to which the interiors were mere stage sets, with modern underpinnings. And I had not previously heard of the unfinished Versailles lookalike built last of all.

I was half-expecting, I suppose, to hear more about Wagner, not least his role in helping to bankrupt Ludwig. Did DC really say the performance of Lohengrin Ludwig attended in Munich in 1860 was the first? (can't be bothered to scroll through iPlayer to check) - perhaps it was just the first in Munich. The first was of course in Weimar in 1850, conducted by Liszt.

[Stephen Smith]

We went, 2 years ago, in a day, to Neuschwanstein from Garmish. A misguided notion - the local bus service,a long journey through many villages culminated in an 11.30 arrival, timed tickets hours ahead and driving rain in the interim (including during the long queue up to the castle entrance). The progress through the castle was in guided groups with a strict rear guard (doors locked behind us). The interior did not compensate for the travails we had undertaken (or were yet to experience) - its feels its age - mid 19th century, and the interior wasn't fully completed . We got the last but one train back (via Munich) and realised our train had gone into reverse 3 stops from Garmish. We waited for the last train at the next station/halt (with an Indian army officer similarly placed), then 2 stops by train, then a coach(for there was engineering work that night) arriving Garmish at about 1.30 am. My family were amazingly good natured about this, overall (i.e. when we had returned to England and could joke about it in the telling).
Even without these travails, I'm not sure the visit would be worth it. My advice would be - buy a DVD (it would surely have aerial views which as commented, are the major part of the fantasy). And with a DVD, you can spend as much time in the various apartments as you want - no one ushering you on to the next room.

[Richard Tarleton]

Great story Stephen, the stuff of holiday nightmares

DC did bring out well, without overstating it, the madness and tragedy of it all - most of all in the Versailles lookalike - the throne in pitiful imitation of Louis XlV, the council chamber that no council would ever sit in, the "dumb waiter" dining table that Ludwig could sit at in solitary state without having to see his servants - all the indulgence of Ludwig's lonely fantasy, deeply strange.

[mercia]

Whenever I've tried the programme proceeds in fits & starts, & the commentary usually ends up well ahead of the pictures.

that's a shame - have you tried the lower bandwith setting ? - I expect you have

well I enjoyed the programme since these are places I am never likely to visit myself, and I expect DC gains access to parts of the buildings, on our behalf, that are barred to everyone else

yes Bar-varia was a rather eccentric pronunciation, especially as the German curator at Neuschw. managed to pronounce it as anyone else would - and I think DC's scripts could do with tidying up, he tends to repeat himself

[Mary Chambers]

I've always rather wanted to visit these places, and somehow never got round to it, so it was good to be able to see them in comfort. I've heard from more than one person that the experience of visiting them isn't quite as wonderful as you might expect.

Most presenters are irritating in one way or another, and I thought DC no worse than others. The German pronunciation was very bizarre, though!

[gurnemanz]

I've always rather wanted to visit these places, and somehow never got round to it, so it was good to be able to see them in comfort. I've heard from more than one person that the experience of visiting them isn't quite as wonderful as you might expect.

Most presenters are irritating in one way or another, and I thought DC no worse than others. The German pronunciation was very bizarre, though!

I enjoyed the programme and also found oddities in the presentation. They clearly had Germans involved in the production so I don't see why they can't get the pronunciation right. Eg Linderhof (long o, not hoff).

Another pedantic niggle: "See" means "lake". He referred to Lake Chiemsee (ie Lake Chiem Lake) but more logically to Starnberg Lake (Starnberger See).

It was especially interesting for me having lived in Bavaria (b'varia) for a year and not actually having visited any of them. We once went to Neuschwanstein but left again when we saw the the queue.

[Ferretfancy]

When we visited Neuschwanstein the huge chandeliers in the hall at the top of the castle had half burned candles. We learned that Visconti had been filming Ludwig there only a month before. Herrenchiemsee was magical because there was a special evening boat trip to it, even though it was pouring with rain and the walk through the trees was rather soggy. Inside the castle everything was in candlelight, and in the Hall of Mirrors a quartet of students from Music gave us some Haydn.

Whispering Dan does get more mannered every time, and I think he stretched things rather when trying to equate Ludwig's architectural ideas with a need to escape reality. Actually he was forced to make hard decisions by his very powerful ministers.