Après Broadchurch - Vicious!

[Anna]

The other changed aspect of life that the episode pointed up was the attitude of younger people generally to gay men - they really couldn't care less except that they're much more accepting than my generation was and certainly wouldn't be adopting the course of action that Mr Pee suggests.

Exactly Ams, no-one nowadays gives a tinker's cuss whether you bat for Darrington! Ignore Mr. Pee Actually, I do have a pair of gay friends, early 60s, been together forever. They do occasionally lurch into arch-campness and Jack often makes pointed comments (but with no malice) about Christopher's mother! But, I still don't think the script of Vicious was up to much on the first outing. (Oh, see what I did there! )

[Mr Pee]

From this I gather that Mr Pee doesn't know many gay men of the generation portrayed (and if he wheels out that tired old line "but I work in the thee-a-ter!" I may make mock :biggrin).

The other changed aspect of life that the episode pointed up was the attitude of younger people generally to gay men - they really couldn't care less except that they're much more accepting than my generation was and certainly wouldn't be adopting the course of action that Mr Pee suggests.

Amateur, it has nothing to do with them being gay, straight, bisexual, trangendered, or anything else, it wasn't the attraction that bothered me; it was the manner in which it was portrayed- crass, vulgar, and with levels of innuendo that wouldn't have disgraced the Benny Hill Show.

[amateur51]

Amateur, it has nothing to do with them being gay, straight, bisexual, trangendered, or anything else, it wasn't the attraction that bothered me; it was the manner in which it was portrayed- crass, vulgar, and with levels of innuendo that wouldn't have disgraced the Benny Hill Show.

As I said, you don't know gay men of that age

[Mr Pee]

Compare it with the razor-sharp script, brilliant comic timing, and sheer wit of an American production visiting similar stereotypes - 'Will & Grace' - this one made me ashamed of British television.

And the gay couple in Modern Family, another (much funnier) American import, who are simply portrayed as ordinary people just trying to get on with their lives and relations- the antithesis of Vicious's dated and stereotypical view of gay men as being camp to the point of excess and predatory with it. I fail to see how this portrayal can do any more than simply reinforce those stereotypes, and I am surprised that Amateur apparently considers this a flattering portrayal. I thought we had moved on from the days of Are You Being Served?

[Mr Pee]

As I said, you don't know gay men of that age

Well, having worked in the last few years with both Derek Jacobi and Ian McKellen, I rather think that I do.

[Thropplenoggin]

Well, having worked in the last few years with both Derek Jacobi and Ian McKellen, I rather think that I do.

That merits a "touché" from Ams. As you were, gentlemen.

[amateur51]

And the gay couple in Modern Family, another (much funnier) American import, who are simply portrayed as ordinary people just trying to get on with their lives and relations- the antithesis of Vicious's dated and stereotypical view of gay men as being camp to the point of excess and predatory with it. I fail to see how this portrayal can do any more than simply reinforce those stereotypes, and I am surprised that Amateur apparently considers this a flattering portrayal. I thought we had moved on from the days of Are You Being Served?

The USA has always tried to portray the best of minorities and good for them. Mind you, with the sort of prejudice still prevalent in that society, I don't blame them.

The debate about equal marriage in UK has tended from some quarters to be seen as a process of aspirational 'normalisation' by some gay men towards societal (for which read 'heterosexual') norms. Good for them!

Others have seen the legal 'sense' of equal marriage - it legitimises their relationship in the eyes of the Law, making things like inheritance, property ownership, etc, etc, much more straight-forward. Good for them!

And yet others behave as portrayed on 'Vicious' whether they're in a relationship or not.Good for them!

It's almost entirely aspirational, and it surfaces when they're amongst close friends, and is probably more out of habit than anything else.The world is changing very quickly and many gay men over 60 feel left behind by the rate of change of society's attitudes. This is the generation that hit the streets and marched for basic human rights inj the early 1970s; that marched when Mrs Whitehouse launched her bizarre case of blasphemy against Britain's only Les/Gay newspaper, Gay News; the generation that had to cope with HIV/AIDS, Mrs Thatcher's and Lady Young's section 28, etc. At the age these characters are they'll have been subject to a huge amount of societal homophobia when they were growing up too, something that 'Ash' will know very little about. Good for them!

End of. (did you see what I there? )

[amateur51]

Well, having worked in the last few years with both Derek Jacobi and Ian McKellen, I rather think that I do.

Close were you, Mr Pee?

[Mary Chambers]

I hoped this would be good. The subject and cast seemed promising, but I was very disappointed. It just seemed a bit obvious in an old-fashioned way, and over the top. I suppose I was hoping for something a bit more sophisticated, a sort of Britten and Pears couple! It had a few, very few, good moments, and I'll watch the next one just in case it improves. I thought McKellan was much better than Jacobi, and Frances de la Tour pretty much wasted.

I didn't think the young man was at all attractive, incidentally, but then I am not an elderly gay man.

[Mr Pee]

Close were you, Mr Pee?

Reasonably, although I was more closely involved in Sir Ian's production (The Syndicate), than I was in Derek Jacobi's,(Heartbreak House). Apart from the actual work we had a few post rehearsal and post show drinks together in the local theatre pub and enjoyed a rather fun press night party. One of the perks of the job, getting to meet such interesting people.

[french frank]

As a matter of interest, does the word 'vicious' have a modern, antiphrastic meaning like 'wicked' and 'bad'?

[amateur51]

As a matter of interest, does the word 'vicious' have a modern, antiphrastic meaning like 'wicked' and 'bad'?

Not as far as I know - I understand that the working title of the show was 'Vicious Old Queens'

[Ferretfancy]

How was it possible for three great talents to waste themselves on this impoverished script? Surely the days of Boys in the Band type gay self loathing should be over by now.
Ian McKellan was a founder of Stonewall, which has done so much to emancipate gay people, and yet he is willing to indulge himself in this camp travesty. The whole production is a disastrous miscalculation.

The following programme Job Lot, was very much better, but then I think that Russell Tovey is gorgeous, and talented too!

[gurnemanz]

I am afraid I never made it to the programme itself, getting no further than off-putting trailers and damning reviews.

[Northender]

I am afraid I never made it to the programme itself, getting no further than off-putting trailers and damning reviews.

Same here. Ian MacKellan was very good as the less obviously camp addition to Corrie's book club.