Delius film last night

[Pabmusic]

...I was also surprised to learn that On Cooking the First Hero's folk tune is in fact Norwegian and a tribute to Greig...

Grieg used the same folk tune in his op. 66 Norwegian Folk Tunes,

[ardcarp]

All the 'talking Heads' who discussed Delius and his music are people of demonstrable musical knowledge, experience and skill

Indeed they were, and I was not 'dissing' them at all. It was more the way their contributions had been chopped up by the producer and kept appearing in little chunks (cf the Sibelius films). And the 'exaggerated reverence' really came at the end when it all got a bit syrupy and emotional over burials, deathbeds and last words.

On the subject of Beecham, Delius may well be still unknown had it not been for Beecham's patronage and encouragement. He was a bit of a character and a maverick (not to mention an endless source of jokes) but one has to put that 'arrogance' in the context of his time. TB was a very good conductor and I'm always surprised at how fresh and brisk his Mozart, for instance, sounds. He was not a man of slow tempi and goo as were many other conductors of his time.

[MrGongGong]

On the subject of Beecham, Delius may well be still unknown had it not been for Beecham's patronage and encouragement. He was a bit of a character and a maverick (not to mention an endless source of jokes) but one has to put that 'arrogance' in the context of his time. TB was a very good conductor and I'm always surprised at how fresh and brisk his Mozart, for instance, sounds. He was not a man of slow tempi and goo as were many other conductors of his time.

He seems completely mismatched to the music IMV
I wonder what would have happened if someone more empathetic was to have championed Delius ?

[ardcarp]

I wonder what would have happened if someone more empathetic was to have championed Delius ?

Such as....?

[Sir Velo]

I confess I hadn't appreciated that a conductor must have lived the life of a saint to be any good. If so, that would rule out Karajan, Solti, Szell, Reiner, Celibidache for starters. Today, it may be easy to see Beecham as a bit of a charlatan or mountebank but it would be hard for anyone on hearing his Delius to deny that he had a special affinity with the music. Beecham said he was electrified on first hearing Appalachia back in 1907 and, thereafter, explained that Delius' music was for him as "alluring as a wayward woman", which suggests that he, at least, felt he had a good deal of empathy for the music.

Moreover, Delius, himself, acknowledged the huge debt he owed to Beecham for establishing his music in the repertory, remarking that no other conductor understood the music as well. To say he had little or no empathy for the music is to overlook how much he did in the composer's cause: for example, he included Delius on programmes throughout the world, when no-one else was; he recorded almost all of the music when no other recordings existed; mounted the operas when no other stagings took place; edited pieces and embarked on editing the first edition of the complete scores; and even wrote a biography of Delius.

The only other contemporary conductor who "championed" Delius was probably Barbirolli, but in any comparative listening Beecham's phrasing of the music conveys a sense of wonder which the former rarely captures. Whatever Beecham's personal failings, he should be remembered as a conductor of genius in a wide range of repertoire, as his recordings testify.

The fact that Delius' music fell out of fashion after Beecham's death is probably more due to the fact that Beecham had made the music his in such a complete way that no other conductor would have dared to pick up the baton, as it were, and challenge him on this repertoire. Moreover, it's also quite usual for a composer to fall out of favour after their death; one only has to think of how the posthumous reputations of Elgar, Hindemith, or Tippett suffered in the immediate aftermath of their demise. Once the dust had settled on the Beecham legacy however a significant number of leading British conductors have taken up Delius's cause: Handley; Hickox; del Mar; Mackerras; Groves; Davis A and Lloyd Jones to name but a few. Therefore, to think that Beecham has somehow stifled Delius' popularity is a myth that needs exploding.

[gradus]

Worth noting that Delius dedicated his opera Fennimore and Gerda to Beecham.

[ardcarp]

Sir Velo. Post #20.

[aeolium]

Whatever Beecham's personal failings, he should be remembered as a conductor of genius in a wide range of repertoire, as his recordings testify.

I totally agree, Sir Velo. It's a shame that his personality and his numerous bons mots (some of which understandably fell flat or sound stupid now) should obscure this for many people. What's forgotten too is the enormous amount of hard work he put in to preparation of the scores and parts in advance of rehearsal, and that he was frequently conducting new music (such as one of the first performances of Petrushka in Berlin, standing in for Monteux at two days' notice and yet giving an acclaimed performance).

Many musicians have made fools of themselves with things they've said and done. Yet in the last analysis it's what they achieve as musicians that matters. Without Beecham, it's likely that the development of musical life in this country would have been put back decades.

[ardcarp]

Another

[MrGongGong]

I'm too young to be a paid up member of the Beechamists and i'm sure he did wonderful things for our musical life (in spite of his "bons mots" )
but all I was thinking was that if Delius had had someone like Esa-Pekka Salonen he might have been more understood thassorl

[aeolium]

You may well be right, MrGG, though sadly that fine conductor E-PS was not around at the time. It can't be denied that Beecham did a lot to get Delius' music better known, but of course it would be good to have very different perspectives on the music.

(I'm no paid-up member of the Beechamists, but I do admire a good number of his recordings).