Who is this Bowie person?

[ardcarp]

On R4 this morning and on Newsnight tonight we were served up a few bars of something we were clearly supposed to Ooh and Aah about. I regret that to me it sounded like a few very ordinary chords accompanying an old man crooning a naive 'tune' with worse lyrics. Shoot me now, somebody.

[Flay]

I felt the same about it - run of the mill, tuneless, worn-out voice. But my pub cronies raved about it tonight.

I thought it disappointing after his Ziggy days. Never mind. Who can turn skies back and begin again?

[Anna]

I have Ziggy Stardust and The Spiders of Mars on the shelf.
I think it makes me look retro-cool. I would never dream of playing it. His new teeth are horrendous.

[Mr Pee]

I've had a listen online and I thought the song was beautiful, and quite haunting.In this age of manufactured, over-marketed and mostly talentless wanabees, we should celebrate the return of a true original and a real talent, not slag him off. I think the OP is mean spirited and snobbish.

Pass me the gun.

[MrGongGong]

Some of his work (Low for example) is truly wonderful stuff
BUT this , all over the media frenzy or free advertising
is lacklustre, and just another song to add to a world already brimming with the ruddy things
having little of interest sonically IMV

(are his new teeth as bad as some of us at spulling ? not that I give a toss about the teeth ..........)

and mr Pee only says that because this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZyQxTWDLZ8o

was the moment where he realised what his true vocation in life was

[DracoM]

Some people aver that Bowie is to pop/rock what Karajan is to Beethoven.

[Mr Pee]

and mr Pee only says that because this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZyQxTWDLZ8o

was the moment where he realised what his true vocation in life was

You just can't help yourself, can you??

[Flosshilde]

having little of interest sonically

What actually does that mean?

& does everything have to be 'sonically interesting'?


Can't music sometimes just be pleasant, or pleasurable, or fun?

[MrGongGong]

What actually does that mean?

& does everything have to be 'sonically interesting'?


Can't music sometimes just be pleasant, or pleasurable, or fun?

Sonically ?

The Sound of it ...............the sounds that are in it , the sounds that go to make up the sonic component of the music

and

YES
music can be many things ....... including the three you quote

It is interesting that in the media frenzy of people wetting their knickers about this song that there's precious little about the SOUND it makes, which is a surprise as (given that it's all about Berlin) the stuff he made there (Low for example) is some of the most sonically interesting popular music and had a huge influence on many others.

[Flosshilde]

Sonically ?

The Sound of it ...............the sounds that are in it , the sounds that go to make up the sonic component of the music

Can music have anything other than sounds - can their be any other component than sound?

& isn't all music sonically interesting, to somebody?


Hmm - having said that (the first sentence) I realise that music has a structure, too , & that a piece of music could be structurally interesting, but sound uninteresting. But then the structure could be subjective, too - would people have thought that some of Debussy's music was rather formless? (just as they thought that the impressionist painters were - hence the 'Impressionist' label)

[MrGongGong]

Can music have anything other than sounds - can their be any other component than sound?

Yes (the short answer)

When people talk about some music (Dylan's Birthday last year was a good example) they often talk about everything BUT the sound it makes.

[Lateralthinking1]

Haven't heard it in full yet although what I have managed to hear of it sounded ok. Apparently, it is like some of the tracks on "Heathen" which was not a bad CD. The "serious" media coverage was OTT. It was on PM too with Eddie Mair asking Robert Peston for his opinion. And, of course, the usual media luvvies did what they do. Just one example, Boy George : "it's bloody gorgeous".

David Bowie has always been a bit special to me and not because of the more usual stances - Ziggy Stardust style/nostalgia and Berlin-era art/cool - which incidentally I respect. "Space Oddity", the track, is a very early memory and one that to this day has considerable resonance. And there is the fact that his brother and mother were in the mental health hospital, a mile from here, where I worked during a university holiday in the early 1980s. So too were close relatives of Charlie Chaplin and Michael Caine. There is, then, that sense of a local connection. Sadly his brother died on the line at the nearby railway station in January 1985.



Picture: The original 1970 US release of The Man Who Sold the World employed a cartoon-like cover drawing by Bowie's friend Michael J Weller with a cowboy in front of Cane Hill Hospital where Terry lived, preferring it to other hospitals that had been home.

As for my favourite album by him, that is the distinctly uncool "Space Oddity" too. "The Wild Eyed Boy From Freecloud", "An Occasional Dream", "Memory of a Free Festival", "God Knows I'm Good", "Letter to Hermione" - all magic if not necessarily to be scrutinised too critically. I finally saw him live in the 2000s. He had a sore throat but was professional, moving and memorable.

I'm pleased he has Tony Visconti on board for the new project. It provides continuity - and anyone who could have been married both to Mary Hopkin and May Pang is never going to be lacking in breadth of vision! It is unsurprising, given Bowie's lifelong innovation, that they are using modern promotion techniques. But he could have released a 7 inch single and been the biggest seller in that category for a couple of decades. What is the biggest seller of the past 20 years? The White Stripes - Icky Thump!!

[Mandryka]

Bowie is probably the most popular popular artist of the post-war period: there is something for (almost) everyone in his output. Unless you have a complete aversion to pop/rock music in all its forms, there is probably something in the Bowie canon that will appeal to you.

That said, and in common with most 'heritage' artists, his recent work has been over-praised. I don't think it will find too many listeners in later years....the goes for the late works of Dylan, Young and Townshend (I don't think future generations will bother themselves with ANY of the Beatles' solo work, with the exception - perhaps - of George Harrison's).

Bowie was always ambitious, both artistically and commercially: he wanted to be a huge star and he became one, principally by taking chances and doing things that NO ONE ELSE would have been prepared to do. His 1972 announcement of his bisexuality could well have killed his career just when it looked like taking off (it was a particularly strange move for him to make, considering he was never actually much of a bisexual - quite a womaniser, in fact, if all is to be believed).

I've not heard the new single and have no great desire to - it is good to think he's still around, though.

My favourite Bowie album is Aladdin Sane: one of those rare rock albums which you can play end to end and which never disappoints. It also has one of the all-time great polarising covers: people have been known to burst into tears or start screaming in anger when they see it for the first time. Also because the person who (apparently) inspired Lady Grinning Soul is a personal friend of mine.....

[Lateralthinking1]

Bowie is probably the most popular popular artist of the post-war period: there is something for (almost) everyone in his output. Unless you have a complete aversion to pop/rock music in all its forms, there is probably something in the Bowie canon that will appeal to you.

That said, and in common with most 'heritage' artists, his recent work has been over-praised. I don't think it will find too many listeners in later years....the goes for the late works of Dylan, Young and Townshend (I don't think future generations will bother themselves with ANY of the Beatles' solo work, with the exception - perhaps - of George Harrison's).

Bowie was always ambitious, both artistically and commercially: he wanted to be a huge star and he became one, principally by taking chances and doing things that NO ONE ELSE would have been prepared to do. His 1972 announcement of his bisexuality could well have killed his career just when it looked like taking off (it was a particularly strange move for him to make, considering he was never actually much of a bisexual - quite a womaniser, in fact, if all is to be believed).

I've not heard the new single and have no great desire to - it is good to think he's still around, though.

My favourite Bowie album is Aladdin Sane: one of those rare rock albums which you can play end to end and which never disappoints. It also has one of the all-time great polarising covers: people have been known to burst into tears or start screaming in anger when they see it for the first time. Also because the person who (apparently) inspired Lady Grinning Soul is a personal friend of mine.....

Interesting comments. What he said and did in the early 1970s was so hugely creative that there were questions about his sanity. It was often reported that he was so afraid of the mental illness that ran through his family, and whether it could be a part of him, that he abandoned them. In truth, he visited his brother. There was never a camera or a journalist and he dressed in a plain suit.

Following the closure of Cane Hill Hospital, it fell into disrepair. The level of security around the place was far in excess of the system that operated during the time that the hospital was in operation. The electric fences and ferocious dogs gave an "after the holocaust" appearance to the area. The Cane Hill Cult, largely local college kids whose hobby was getting into such sites as "urban warriors", was a fascinating development. Loathed by authority, their ignorance was exceptional. They approached it as if forcing their way into a haunted house. They were also fantastically artistic and their work at least provides a historical document of the buildings. There was an extraordinarily moving video on You Tube of the ruins to the tune of "Life on Mars" but I can only find a poor imitation of it now. If I can find the one I really liked I will post it. I wrote to the young woman to thank her for making it.

It isn't without irony that those students who, in that way, displayed an artistically anarchic spirit not dissimilar to Bowie himself have proven to be the ones who after 1990 had the most respect for the place. One of the few grade listed buildings was destroyed in a fire comparatively recently on a night of torrential rain. Property developers had been frustrated that their plans were being challenged. The local authority's silence on the matter is questionable. History to them appeared to be a nuisance.

I loved it. While a colleague handed in his notice because he couldn't cope with "all the nutters", the people were lovely if often very sad and the surrounding grounds were so peaceful. It was particularly poignant to see on the videos all of my neat filing system strewn in accumulated dirt across the floors. One poor man had half of his face missing because he continually set light to it. It was a shocking sight. However, I have never worked in a place where people felt less threatening and, on balance, the staff did what they could. I used to have my sandwiches at lunchtime in beautiful woodland, something that never happened again.

[Mandryka]

Interesting comments. What he said and did in the early 1970s was so hugely creative that there were questions about his sanity. It was often reported that he was so afraid of the mental illness that ran through his family and whether it was a part of him that he abandoned them. In truth, he visited his brother. There was never a camera or a journalist and he dressed in a plain suit.

Following the closure of Cane Hill Hospital, it fell into disrepair. The level of security around the place was far in excess of the system that operated during the time that the hospital was in operation. The electric fences and dogs gave an "after the holocaust" appearance to the entire area. The Cane Hill Cult, largely local college kids whose hobby was getting into such sites as "urban warriors", was a fascinating development. Loathed by authority, their ignorance was extraordinary. They approached it as if walking into a haunted house. They were also fantastically artistic and their work at least provides a historical document of the buildings. There was an extraordinarily moving video on You Tube of the ruins to the tune of "Life on Mars" but I can only find a poor imitation of it now. If I can find the one I really liked I will post it. I wrote to the young woman to thank her for making it.

It isn't without irony that those students who showed in this way an artistically anarchic spirit not dissimilar to Bowie himself have proven to be the ones who after 1990 had the most respect for the place. One of the few main grade listed buildings was destroyed in a fire comparatively recently on a night of torrential rain. Developers had been frustrated that their plans were being challenged. The local authority's determined silence on the matter is highly questionable.

I loved it. While a colleague handed in his notice because he couldn't cope with "all the nutters", the people were lovely if often sad and the surrounding grounds so peaceful. It was particularly poignant to see on the videos all of my neat filing system strewn in accumulated dirt on the floor. One poor man had half of his face missing because he continually set light to it but I have never worked in a place where people felt less threatening. And I used to have my sandwiches at lunchtime in beautiful woodland, something that never happened again.

That was a fascinating read.

I've always thought that Bowie comes across as incredibly sane and down to earth in interviews.....a recognisble type of canny South Londoner, beneath all the make-up. I'm glad to hear he kept in contact with his brother (as did Michael Caine, apparently).

Some personal memories: I can remember finding Bowie vaguely scary when I was a 5-year old in 1972-3. Although I liked most glam-rock (all the Chinnichap bands, etc), I can remember thinking that Bowie was 'definitely not for kids'. So, when he appeared to release a kiddies record in the late summer of that year (the notorious Laughing Gnome), I was mightily relieved that could be 'normal', after all (I still maintain it's one of the best novelty records ever made by anyone whose name wasn't Anthony Newley).

Later in life - around the age of 14/15 - I became a firm Bowiephile. I bought all the albums and read about him obsessively: my Granddad wasn't amused. 'I'd give him five years for making that racket!' was his comment whenever he overheard me playing the opening track of ....Ziggy Stardust.....'