Imagine: Jeannette Winterson - My Monster and Me

[Serial_Apologist]

Why don't we have an emoticon implying a tongue well stuck into cheek

This combination kind of half gets there:

[jean]

To many heterosexual men lesbian sex is a turn on, in fantasy or in actuality.

I'm outta here.

[Anna]

Male heterosexual attitudes towards lesbianism have always been contradictory.

Indeed, as also as you say, it's a huge male fantasy but, conversely, if a woman knocks a man back she's dismissed as "obviously, she's a lezzie" Ditto comment if a woman is seen as somewhat masculine or butch. Personally, I think an awful lot of men feel threatened by women, whatever their orientation.
The majority of women like gay men because they are totally unthreatening, you can be friends with them, sometimes it's quite hard to be friends with some heterosexual males.

[MrGongGong]

[amateur51]

Splendid!

[Mary Chambers]

Indeed, as also as you say, it's a huge male fantasy but, conversely, if a woman knocks a man back she's dismissed as "obviously, she's a lezzie"

When I was young, the word 'frigid' was used quite a bit. (Not of me as far as I know!!) It was what men said about women who didn't fancy them for whatever reason

[Serial_Apologist]

I'm outta here.

I'm sorry jean if that is so ; my remarks though possibly misguided, are not intended to hurt or offend. Sexual fantasy is an important element or motivator in human interactivity and the way we regard ourselves and others, whether acted out or not, I believe.

[Serial_Apologist]

Indeed, as also as you say, it's a huge male fantasy but, conversely, if a woman knocks a man back she's dismissed as "obviously, she's a lezzie" Ditto comment if a woman is seen as somewhat masculine or butch.

By no means universally, Anna, but I agree that...

Personally, I think an awful lot of men feel threatened by women, whatever their orientation.

The majority of women like gay men because they are totally unthreatening, you can be friends with them, sometimes it's quite hard to be friends with some heterosexual males.

I agree entirely, having first come across this during my time as a waiter in West End restaurants in the 1960s. On the other hand I think quite a lot of women think it is impossible to have platonic relationships with men. Some of my greatest and most longlasting friendships have been with women.

[Anna]

When I was young, the word 'frigid' was used quite a bit. (Not of me as far as I know!!) It was what men said about women who didn't fancy them for whatever reason

Indeed Mary. And we have to be so wary of damaging men's fragile egos don't we? It's like treading on eggshells sometimes.

On the other hand I think quite a lot of women think it is impossible to have platonic relationships with men. Some of my greatest and most longlasting friendships have been with women.

Very much depends on the man, you may be the exception, I haven't found it very easy.

[Serial_Apologist]

Indeed Mary. And we have to be so wary of damaging men's fragile egos don't we? It's like treading on eggshells sometimes.

Very much depends on the man, you may be the exception, I haven't found it very easy.

Reverse stereotyping in this area re-imposes the double-binds in new guise but from the opposite pov, sends one skuttling back to square one, nothing having been lost thereby, and nothing gained...

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Ferney, I have pulled Sexing the Cherry and Gut Symmetries from the bookcase. I will reread them over Christmas. Thank you.

[handsomefortune]

thanks very much for the iplayer link to a relatively unique cultural icon serial apologist!

i really enjoyed the film, (especially having read comments on here first).

[Serial_Apologist]

thanks very much for the iplayer link to a relatively unique cultural icon serial apologist!

i really enjoyed the film, (especially having read comments on here first).

There's much more to Janette than I'd realised... and to this thread than I'd reckoned with