"The Story of Wales" presented by Huw Edwards

[Guest]

Anyone else been watching this? http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p00mlrq9

I've been finding it fascinating: it's a country (or "part of the country", depending on political preference) I know very little about. OK, with only six episodes to cover more than 2000 years it's obviously not been able to go into a lot of depth, but I reckon it's done a good job as a general introduction for the non-specialist.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Anyone else been watching this? http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p00mlrq9

I've been finding it fascinating: it's a country (or "part of the country", depending on political preference) I know very little about. OK, with only six episodes to cover more than 2000 years it's obviously not been able to go into a lot of depth, but I reckon it's done a good job as a general introduction for the non-specialist.

Yes; I've been following it, too, and share your enthusiasm.

[Pianorak]

Anyone else been watching this? http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p00mlrq9

Yes, absolutely riveting - warts and all. Iolo Morganwg

[gingerjon]

I've managed to miss this series so far but a good while ago my interest in Wales and Welsh History was first developed by this remarkable book (and series) by Gwyn A Williams. I don't know how easy it is to find a copy but it's remarkably easy to read - and despite being a book that praises the Welsh for their culture, courage tenacity through the years doesn't shy away from pointing out the obvious: that the Glyndwr rebellion was a failure, that Wales has never existed as an independent nation state, that the only people who really caused the decline of the Welsh language were the Welsh etc etc.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I've managed to miss this series so far but a good while ago my interest in Wales and Welsh History was first developed by this remarkable book (and series) by Gwyn A Williams. I don't know how easy it is to find a copy but it's remarkably easy to read - and despite being a book that praises the Welsh for their culture, courage tenacity through the years doesn't shy away from pointing out the obvious: that the Glyndwr rebellion was a failure, that Wales has never existed as an independent nation state, that the only people who really caused the decline of the Welsh language were the Welsh etc etc.

This was good, too (IMO, and apologies - I'm a Saesnig!):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ai7rPNZiIHk

... which inspired this article:

http://www.clickonwales.org/2010/08/the-need-to-think-laterally-about-history/

[Gordon]

As a Cymro I'm pleased that this series has been given an airing outside the Principality. It was first shown earlier on BBC Wales which is where I saw it via IPlayer [I live in Engand] having been warned about it by family still in Wales.

I think it does a good job given the limited time it's been given and perhaps the wider showing will improve understanding of things Welsh in England and elsewhere. The Welsh nation is too small and was never going to be able to withstand the pressure, political and economic, from its powerful and aggressive neighbours [various: Roman/Saxon/Viking/French] and has done well to keep a culture and identity alive so long. The "English" ie Saxons [that's why we Welsh call them Saeson, it's a corruption of Saxon, as do the Scots - Sassenachs] experienced a similar decline after the Conquest but their language survived the French somehow even after several centuries.

There is a saying in Welsh: "Cenedl heb iaith yw cenedl heb galon" - a nation without a language is a nation without a heart. Welsh is declining, despite the efforts of young people who have formed Welsh pop/rock bands etc, and it is sad to see that even in the heartlands of west Wales English is dominant on the streets and in businesses. I was in Snowdonia a couple of weeks ago and when I tried to speak Welsh there I was answered in English much of the time.

FHG's comment that the language decline is the result of the Welsh themselves and I would not dissent from that but I would argue that to be next door to a language and culture which dominated the world [and its language still does] is a challenge. American culture through the language of English has changed England too - again political and economic power - and not necessarily for the better.

By the way, one should not consider Wales and the Welsh as one whole uniform entity, there are strong differences between the North and South and East and West.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Great post, Gordon, but I should point out that it was gingerjon (referring to Gwynn Williams) who raised the point about the decline of Cymraeg was chiefly down to the Welsh themselves. I'd've raised the point that the survival of the language and its ressurgence since the '60s is also "mainly due to the Welsh themselves". As you say in your last paragraph, "the Welsh" covers a multitude of virtues: to blame a whole people for being the cause of any decline in their language is rather too sweeping. But that's typical of Williams' bracing, confrontational hyperbole, and I love it!

[aeolium]

ferney, thanks for the links to the Vaughan-Thomas/Williams programme. It comes across very strangely as if two completely different programmes have been stitched together. I don't really think V-T could hold a candle to Gwyn Williams as a historian - he was really just a BBC 'voice' and one which I never cared for much.

Do you remember the Kenneth Griffiths' documentaries/one-man shows on various subjects? I thought they were great fun. I recall seeing him give a lecture at the University of Swansea late on in his life. It was unscripted and had the academic 'suits' in the front row red-faced with embarrassment and terror at what bombshell he was going to drop next Had he sent them a script the lecture would never have happened.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I only remember seeing Griffith's television documentary (a series of three programmes, IIRC) on the Boer War, which was full of fire and information I hadn't previously known - but which also painted the Boers in rather too glowing a light. Victims of colonial expansionism, and showing dogged courage, they were nevertheless viciously racist in their attitudes which Griffith completely ignored.

Agree with your assessment of WV-T in comparison with GW - the former perhaps too gentle and genial, less interested in analysis than in story-telling, but a good story-teller nonetheless. I wonder if the Beeb regarded him as a sort of "Welsh Fyfe Robertson"?

[salymap]

My mother had cousins Tom and Theresa Taylor from Swansea so I must have slight Welsh connections. Anyway, I haven't seen all the programmes but thoroughly enjoyed the ones I have watched.