ARENA : Jonathan Miller

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

And let's remember that Miller's film is his interpretation of Dodgson's/Carroll's "Alice", itself an astonishing work of imagination

[Globaltruth]

I thought that too fhg

And let's remember that Miller's film is his interpretation of Dodgson's/Carroll's "Alice", itself an astonishing work of imagination

If you pop into the British Library you'll find Dodgson's original diary containing the manuscript of Alice - very interesting, very frustrating because really you want to examine the whole thing, but, of course, it is just open at a specific couple of pages.

Dodgson became very concerned at the quality of his drawings/watercolours - which were never used anyway...
anyway it's worth hunting down if you are in there.
It is in the part on the left just past the shop, sponsored by some mega-industrialist....

[amateur51]

If you pop into the British Library you'll find Dodgson's original diary containing the manuscript of Alice - very interesting, very frustrating because really you want to examine the whole thing, but, of course, it is just open at a specific couple of pages.

Dodgson became very concerned at the quality of his drawings/watercolours - which were never used anyway...
anyway it's worth hunting down if you are in there.
It is in the part on the left just past the shop, sponsored by some mega-industrialist....

Many thanks for this alert, Global - I'm down that way next week so I may well take a look.

Do you/does anyone have a recommendation for a Dodgson/Carroll biography?

I can certainly recommend Martin Gardners's Annotated Alice

http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Annotated-Alice-Definitive-Looking-Glass/dp/0140289291/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1333621246&sr=1-1

[handsomefortune]

Ah! I "understood" kernepb to be referring to the Arena "film" about Miller, not Miller's "film" of Alice?

aha! thanks very much for posting ferneyhoughgeliebte, i thought it was a slightly odd thing to write of the film of 'a in w'. but i'd nevertheless stand by most points expressed in response, despite the confusion.

"Alice", itself an astonishing work of imagination

people can still misinterpret the essence though, as you can see if you look at other images of alice on utube, reflecting different values to those expressed by miller, in other productions over the years.

all sorts of other great stuff 'nearby' on utube, eg 'wednesday play' (also in b/w) and other 'entertainment' from that same era, which hint at a similar 'rare honesty', hope, change etc particular to the 60s.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

all sorts of other great stuff 'nearby' on utube, eg 'wednesday play' (also in b/w) and other 'entertainment' from that same era, which hint at a similar 'rare honesty', hope, change etc particular to the 60s.

YouTube is a fantastic treasure trove of rare and obscure Music and TV; an important and functional archive.

[JFLL]

Surprised that nobody's mentioned the immortal skit from Beyond the Fringe:

Jonathan Miller: "And now, Dudley Moore continues to accompany himself at the piano-forrtay, this time in settings of British songs, a setting by Benjamin Britten of the old English air 'Little Miss Muffet'. The Miss Muffet referred to in this song is believed to have been the daughter of Thomas Muffet, a seventeenth-century entomologist."

Dudley Moore: [Brittenish chords on the piano] …"Leeeetle Miss Maffet, saaaat on a taffet, eating her curds, eating her curds, eating her curds aaaand wheeeeeeey …."

Third Programme announcers (let alone Benjamin Britten and Peter Pears) never quite recovered in my juvenile estimation.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Just in case anybody doesn't know the very naughty "skit" to which JFLL refers, here it is:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KdmoxlqQQ4c

... with apologies to Mary Chambers and to the shades of Britten & Pears.

[Nick Armstrong]

Just in case anybody doesn't know the very naughty "skit" to which JFLL refers, here it is:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KdmoxlqQQ4c

... with apologies to Mary Chambers and to the shades of Britten & Pears.

Thank you fhg (and JFLL). I'd totally forgotten it was JM who did the announcer's spot The gobbet of information about Miss Muffet's illustrious entomological relation reminds one of the little 'extra facts' supplied by Messrs Shea et al on TTN to this day.

The Britten-Pears ****-take (Pears-take?) is quite simply perfect

[salymap]

Yes, thanks for that ferney. I've seen it before but it can stand being repeated, it's amazingly good.

[kernelbogey]

Thinking about Miller's Alice film (my previous post (27) was about the new Arena film about Miller!): I remember the impact it had when first shown. We had been so imbued with Tenniel's vision of the characters that Miller's achievement was to reconnect with (his interpretation of) Carroll's metaphors. The Lizard, Caterpillar et al were metaphors for individual adults as seen by a child. In 1966, IIRC, it was a brilliant coup de theatre (or coup de tube, perhaps ).

[handsomefortune]

apologies for any confusion caused kernelbogey! did you see miller's alice in wonderland at the cinema? that must have been pretty spectacular, unforgetable.

The Lizard, Caterpillar

made great codes for alice to share!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/ba/Alice_par_John_Tenniel_30.png

[Carmen]

Have just had the pleasure of seeing on iPlayer the Arena film and The Zoo in Winter, the hilarious film that followed it, I've been a a long-time fan, and I'm so glad to see so many others in these posts. What a fantastic person. In these days of lazy, flabby thinking, JM is unique. I can't think of anyone else so gifted with enthusing, inspiring and broadening perceptions. The films are on iPlayer until tonight, if anyone hasn't seen them. ,

[kernelbogey]

apologies for any confusion caused kernelbogey! did you see miller's alice in wonderland at the cinema? that must have been pretty spectacular, unforgetable.

The Lizard, Caterpillar

made great codes for alice to share!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...Tenniel_30.png

As we didn't have a tele in those days I must have begged friends who did to let me see it. I didn't know it had ever been in the cinema.

Thanks for the link, hf: I shall never look at a flamingo in quite the same way again....

[kernelbogey]

[...] What a fantastic person. In these days of lazy, flabby thinking, JM is unique. I can't think of anyone else so gifted with enthusing, inspiring and broadening perceptions[....]

In every sequence that he appeared, whether the historical ones, say, of him directing, or those shot for the film itself, he wore his learning, opinions, enthusiasms so lightly. Whereas it's now commonplace to trumpet multiple achievement as a 'celebrity' quality.

[amateur51]

In every sequence that he appeared, whether the historical ones, say, of him directing, or those shot for the film itself, he wore his learning, opinions, enthusiasms so lightly. Whereas it's now commonplace to trumpet multiple achievement as a 'celebrity' quality.

I occasionally see him going into a Northern Line station as I'm coming out en route to the Zoo (me, not JM).

He always looks deep in thought and praps a bit cheesed off by the thought of the journey to come but if you toss a cheery 'hello!' in his direction his face lights up imediately (he doesn't know me) & he returns the greeting.

Same goes for Tony Benn I've found