ARENA : Jonathan Miller

[salymap]

9.30pm on BBC2 last night -31st March. As he has made such an impact on so many fields of the arts and bridged the gap between the arts and sciences it seems worth a 'heads up' here.

I've recorded it but not watched it yet.

[amateur51]

9.30pm on BBC2 last night -31st March. As he has made such an impact on so many fields of the arts and bridged the gap between the arts and sciences it seems worth a 'heads up' here.

I've recorded it but not watched it yet.

Thanks for the alert, salymap

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01flrcl/Arena_Jonathan_Miller/

[Curalach]

I've recorded it but not watched it yet.

Watched it last night after getting home from a concert. He is such an interesting man. He would definitely be on my list of ideal dinner guests!

[Serial_Apologist]

Those who haven't yet watched the programme are in for a real treat.

THIS is what the BBC should be for: putting out programmes about the kinds of people who have and continue to contribute so much to the artistic and intellectual life of this country.

After watching his contributions to the field of opera, I am left feeling: if ONLY he were on the Radio 3 team, right now!

S-A

[Globaltruth]

if ONLY he were on the Radio 3 team, right now!

S-A

What a spiffing suggestion.

It was an inspirational programme - and what a terrific sense of humour...

[amateur51]

I enjoyed the programme very much.

I've met him twice, quite by accident. Early one Sunday morning I'd hurried down to my local bakery to get some freshly baked pain au chocolat for a friend who was staying. However there were none left so I had a bright idea & toddled up to the Lebanese grocers a few doors along where I found what I was looking for - Nutella!

As I stood waiting to pay I heard a very distinctive voice say from right behind me "Oh GOD! You don't eat that stuff, do you?"

As I turned around I found myself staring up into the highly amused face of Dr Jonathan who said "My grandchildren eat pots of it!"

I laughed, as you do, and turning to leave I noticed that the great rationalist was at that moment asking for 20 Marlboro cigarettes

I then completed my grocery shopping by returning to the bakery and buying several fresh buttery croissants My guest was very appreciative

There is also a very serious side to Dr Jonathan. I shall always be grateful that he agreed to become one of the Presidents (I think that was the role he took) of CHE (The Campaign for Homosexual Equality) because someone asked him to and he agreed because he thought it was a very important cause

[Chris Newman]

A magnanimous programme about one of the truly magnificent men of our time. It is exactly the sort of programme that shows why the BBC is such an important institution. Bravo!!

[salymap]

A real treat indeed and a film I shall keep. Haven't quite finished it but wish the Alice film was still available, some wonderful people in it. I'm looking forward to the Opera section, which must be there.

There are no words to express my admiration for JM, a truly complete genius.

[aeolium]

I'm afraid I'm of a dissenting opinion about Miller. I've mostly hated the productions of his I've seen, both on film and in the opera house. The film of Alice in Wonderland and the later adaptation of Oh Whistle And I'll Come To You both seem to be examples of Miller trying out his psychological theories at the expense of Lewis Carroll and M R James. The ghastly gimmicks and feeble jokes in his production of Così fan Tutte, and his lifeless and bizarre staging of La Clemenza di Tito in Zurich, all these to me are illustrations of the point that where a Miller production or adaptation is concerned, everything is designed to draw attention away from the work and the composer/author and towards the great genius that is Jonathan Miller. He has done as much as anyone to foster the idea that the opera director has a totally free hand to impose his view of the work, however anachronistic and however musically uninformed (Miller apparently can't read a note of music). Though famed for his sense of humour, I thought he robbed Alice of all its wit, and those ghastly animal impressions at the zoo were simply an embarrassment. I thought he was by far the weakest member of Beyond the Fringe.

Undoubtedly he's very clever and has made significant contributions to a number of areas of cultural life here. But I'm afraid I'm not a fan.

[MrGongGong]

Watched it last night after getting home from a concert. He is such an interesting man. He would definitely be on my list of ideal dinner guests!

Don't you think that if we got rid of the dull royal family that this is someone who would be excellent as a head of state ?

[salymap]

I'm afraid I'm of a dissenting opinion about Miller. I've mostly hated the productions of his I've seen, both on film and in the opera house. The film of Alice in Wonderland and the later adaptation of Oh Whistle And I'll Come To You both seem to be examples of Miller trying out his psychological theories at the expense of Lewis Carroll and M R James. The ghastly gimmicks and feeble jokes in his production of Così fan Tutte, and his lifeless and bizarre staging of La Clemenza di Tito in Zurich, all these to me are illustrations of the point that where a Miller production or adaptation is concerned, everything is designed to draw attention away from the work and the composer/author and towards the great genius that is Jonathan Miller. He has done as much as anyone to foster the idea that the opera director has a totally free hand to impose his view of the work, however anachronistic and however musically uninformed (Miller apparently can't read a note of music). Though famed for his sense of humour, I thought he robbed Alice of all its wit, and those ghastly animal impressions at the zoo were simply an embarrassment. I thought he was by far the weakest member of Beyond the Fringe.

Undoubtedly he's very clever and has made significant contributions to a number of areas of cultural life here. But I'm afraid I'm not a fan.

I see what you mean Aeolium but IMHO I think that the modern dress productions throw a new light on the works concerned and it doesn't mean that we can't prefer or go back to conventional productions, after all.

[aeolium]

Salymap, I'm not against modern dress or updated productions (and I've seen some pretty bad traditional productions), just the attention-grabbing gimmickry that seems to me to be a feature of some of Miller's work. I'd much rather an opera director were able to respond on a musical as well as a dramatic level (as, for instance, Nicholas Hytner seems able to do), whereas Miller at times appears to treat the music as almost incidental to the drama. Still, I'm obviously in a minority as lots of people flock to his productions.

[handsomefortune]

thanks very much for the tip salymap!

aeolium; Still, I'm obviously in a minority as lots of people flock to his productions.

well i wouldn't aeolium.... so l might well join your 'minority'! i can see that the music is a bit secondary, and that miller becomes prone to 'gimmickry' or formulaic tricks........... especially later in life. tbf, comparing hytner with miller doesn't perhaps take into account generational differences, or their respective backgrounds.

in general, i adore miller's originality and eclectism, his effortless interpretation, observations of how so many disciplines and subject areas overlap. as with tony benn, miller is 'of his time', and both make uniquely brilliant social commentators in this sense.

as the 'arena' documentary nears the end, it's perhaps where it should ideally be starting? r4 listeners caught a glimpse of some of miller's 'regrets' in his passionate 'front row' appearance a couple of years ago, when he expressed concern at the direction of contemporary media culture, audiences ....and ticket prices. iirc miller seemed to think it might be a good thing for humans to physically 'huddle together' in a theatre, especially during hard times. but instead, people were isolated despite technologys many positive aspects.

as the docu suggests, miller is 'a natural teacher' ....in fact, the sort people often sneer at today ironically. i can see that a didactic approach might well threaten philistines wishing to progress only in a commercial context, rather than a creative one. simultaneously, miller has been exceptionally lucky in being able to stumble upon new directions in life, that might make others a bit bitter?

miller's 'alice in wonderland' looked absolutely amazing. i would also like to see susan sontag and miller's discussion in full. perhaps the beeb have lost both? and if not, they should surely broadcast them for every generation to wonder at. films are good like that, that's why people make them: so that a record of creativity can continue to exist in a unique 'after life', as pointed out by 'the atheist, jewish doctor' about a gothic sculptor's stone figure. in this respect, the documentary might make viewers a bit wistful, though an awful sense of 'finality' shouldn't actually be necessary.

i hope dr j miller makes more appearances on r3/r4 some time soon, he's conspicuous in his absence.

[amateur51]

Here's the complete film of Miller's Alice In Wonderland

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrlN8rrmOVU

[Serial_Apologist]

Here's the complete film of Miller's Alice In Wonderland

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrlN8rrmOVU

Wow! Thanks, Ams