'Endeavour' ITV 1

[Nick Armstrong]

some lovely moments of human interaction between the characters (the James Last LP )

AH! hadn't read your reference to this classic of the gramophone (your helpful 'spoiler' warnings make me read elsewhere, being a tardy viewer)...

Yes, but what piffle those 'character' moments were wasted on.

Likewise the splendid flare-ups by Allam and then Lesser.

What must they have thought about being stuck in the silly plot, those two?

The maze seen from afar was even less-convincingly CGI'd than the tiger in the scenes with Morse.

Interesting first appearance for a Hathaway (presumably the D.I.'s dad), though, prefiguring the 'Lewis' story set at the same dodgy manoir...

[Anna]

I wonder how many avid viewers of Endeavour do so in order to spot the intertextuality hidden secrets? It's evidently full of it! http://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-ra...hidden-secrets

[Richard Tarleton]

I wonder how many avid viewers of Endeavour do so in order to spot the intertextuality hidden secrets? It's evidently full of it! http://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-ra...hidden-secrets

Hmmm....I think I got some of them, at a subconscious level (e.g. Dog Day Afternoon) but put it down to them pinching bits of plot from here, there and everywhere rather than smartypants postmodern cultural referencing. I am only two degrees of separation away from John Aspinall (having once spent a day with some good friends of his, in a work capacity, parents of somebody rather famous today ) but it didn't occur to me that he might have inspired that daft tiger plot. Too clever for their own good if you ask me - like subcontrabass I'm too busy picking up mistakes (camping in Wytham Woods). And - bearing in mind this is made by people a generation or two younger, who weren't there, it just doesn't feel like the Oxford I remember quite vividly, or like 1967. I missed the "She's leaving home" reference, but picked up some tunes - a bit of Sound of Music, Silence is Golden by the Hollies.....

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I found the errors related to the university extremely irritating. The episode is, I think, supposed to have taken place around 1967/68 (when I was an undergraduate at Oxford).

(1) Morse interrogates his former tutor on his whereabouts between 2 and 3 p.m. the previous Wednesday. The answer (that he was giving a lecture) was not followed up. He cannot have been giving a university lecture at that time as it was outside the official university teaching hours (9 a.m. - 1 p.m., and 5 p.m. - 7 p.m.). So who were his audience?

(2) The same tutor (who taught Classics) is stated to have become Chair of Examiners for "Greats". This is most implausible - Classics at Oxford is Latin and Greek languages and literature; "Greats" is Philosophy and Ancient History. They were taught quite independently but with Classics Mods as the pre-requisite for "Greats".

(3) The possibility that a Chair of Examiners could fiddle the final degree grades when the results lists had to be signed off physically by all the examiners (including an external examiner) seems extremely remote.

I had no idea about 1, wondered about 2, and had deep suspicions about 3.

[Pabmusic]

I had no idea about 1, wondered about 2, and had deep suspicions about 3.

Yes, this was actually a serious error. I don't see Colin Dexter doing it - if you recall, The Silent World Of Nicholas Quinn (1977) had a fairly realistic plot about exam corruption.

[subcontrabass]

I had no idea about 1, wondered about 2, and had deep suspicions about 3.

I forgot number 4:

Why were Police Constables dealing with parking enforcement in central Oxford when that was the job of Traffic Wardens? Traffic Wardens were introduced in Oxford before 1967 (my landlady in Oxford for the academic year 1967/68 was a Traffic Warden). The location indicated for the bank raid seemed to be within the area covered by the Traffic Wardens at that time.

[subcontrabass]

Yes, this was actually a serious error. I don't see Colin Dexter doing it - if you recall, The Silent World Of Nicholas Quinn (1977) had a fairly realistic plot about exam corruption.

That was about external (school level) examinations. The procedures used in Oxford University degree examinations are described in The Riddle of the Third Mile.

[antongould]

I forgot number 4:

Why were Police Constables dealing with parking enforcement in central Oxford when that was the job of Traffic Wardens? Traffic Wardens were introduced in Oxford before 1967 (my landlady in Oxford for the academic year 1967/68 was a Traffic Warden). The location indicated for the bank raid seemed to be within the area covered by the Traffic Wardens at that time.

This is excellent stuff scb - they really should hire you as script editor for the next series ......

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

This is excellent stuff scb - they really should hire you as script editor for the next series ......

- except that they'd have to spend so much time correcting errors that they'd have to rethink the entire plot. Not a bad thing at all for three of the four stories in this series.

[antongould]

- except that they'd have to spend so much time correcting errors that they'd have to rethink the entire plot. Not a bad thing at all for three of the four stories in this series.

Totally agree ferney - the tiger was terrible and have we found out why Miss Thursday has quit the dreaming spires?

[Pabmusic]

That was about external (school level) examinations. The procedures used in Oxford University degree examinations are described in The Riddle of the Third Mile.

So they are! I'll have to read the again.

[Richard Tarleton]

have we found out why Miss Thursday has quit the dreaming spires?

I guess we were meant to put it down to her relationship with her father, one way and another, coupled with Morse's failure to step up to the plate? Seeing her father nearly shoot someone, only to be stopped by Morse? A cynic might respond, so that they could shoehorn in that Beatles reference as per Anna's link In the street, Morse nearly said she's important to him, having just said she's important to her parents, she was willing him to say it but he just bit it back. As so often with this, the acting transcends the script.

[Pabmusic]

I guess we were meant to put it down to her relationship with her father, one way and another, coupled with Morse's failure to step up to the plate? Seeing her father nearly shoot someone, only to be stopped by Morse? A cynic might respond, so that they could shoehorn in that Beatles reference as per Anna's link In the street, Morse nearly said she's important to him, having just said she's important to her parents, she was willing him to say it but he just bit it back. As so often with this, the acting transcends the script.

I guess she felt some guilt for having fancied the slimy bingo caller, who turned out to be key to her being taken hostage. Add this to the rest and you've got "She's Leaving Home".

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I guess we were meant to put it down to her relationship with her father, one way and another, coupled with Morse's failure to step up to the plate? Seeing her father nearly shoot someone, only to be stopped by Morse?

I guess she felt some guilt for having fancied the slimy bingo caller, who turned out to be key to her being taken hostage. Add this to the rest and you've got "She's Leaving Home".

Yeah, but; no, but ...

Joan's character hasn't previously been portrayed as being like that ... nothing we've seen of her so far led me to think that she would leave her mother to cope with her obviously ill father on her own (now that her brother has gone off to the army) - and certainly not in that underhand way and on the spur of a moment.

But yes; that final scene was rather well acted - tears glinting in Morse's eyes as he couldn't bring himself to commit (a real link with the older John Thaw character).

[Dave2002]

Totally agree ferney - the tiger was terrible and have we found out why Miss Thursday has quit the dreaming spires?

I agree the plot of the tiger was terrible (as with so many of this genre - I wonder why we bother to watch ...?) , but I rather liked the tiger. I wonder how they made the episode. Was it a real tiger, or was it GGId like the tiger in Life of Pi?