The Invention of Germany

[aeolium]

Not sure where to post this, but here seemed as good as anywhere. Just a heads-up for the start of an R4 3-part series on the history of Germany before the world wars, presented by that fine broadcaster Misha Glenny.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b015yt86

As most people's knowledge of German history doesn't extend back further than the C20, it is very good that someone is exploring the fascinating origins of that country - I only wish that it was a longer series.

[amateur51]

Many thanks for this!

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

i wish someone would do a similar job on the invention of the United Kingdom ...

[aeolium]

People are often tediously raking over the Tudors again and again, as if there weren't any other interesting periods of history in these lands. There was a reasonably good BBC4 series on aspects of the medieval period presented by Robert Bartlett. I didn't like Schama's 'History of Britain' series as I find his style so florid and his mannerisms so irritating. So yes, a radio series would be welcome.

[gurnemanz]

I taught German for many years and made up this chart as an idiots' guide:

962-1806: Das Heilige Römische Reich Deutscher Nation (Holy Roman Empire of the German Nation) - 300+ states
1806-1871: Der Bund (Federation) - 39 states
1871-1918: Das Deutsche Reich (German Empire)
1918-1933: Die Weimarer Republik (Weimar Republic)
1933-1945: Das Dritte Reich (Third Empire)
1945-1949: 4 Besatzungszonen (4 occupation zones)
1949-1990: Die Bundesrepublik Deutschland (Federal Republic of Germany, ’West Germany‘) - 11 states
1949-1990: Die Deutsche Demokratische Republik (German Democratic Republic‚ ’East Germany‘)
1990- Die Bundesrepublik Deutschland (Federal Republic of Germany) - 16 states

[Roehre]

I taught German for many years and made up this chart as an idiots' guide:

962-1806: Das Heilige Römische Reich Deutscher Nation (Holy Roman Empire of the German Nation) - 300+ states
1806-1871: Der Bund (Federation) - 39 states
1871-1918: Das Deutsche Reich (German Empire)
1918-1933: Die Weimarer Republik (Weimar Republic)
1933-1945: Das Dritte Reich (Third Empire)
1945-1949: 4 Besatzungszonen (4 occupation zones)
1949-1990: Die Bundesrepublik Deutschland (Federal Republic of Germany, ’West Germany‘) - 11 states
1949-1990: Die Deutsche Demokratische Republik (German Democratic Republic‚ ’East Germany‘)
1990- Die Bundesrepublik Deutschland (Federal Republic of Germany) - 16 states

thanks Gurnemanz.
For those who want to know whether there ever were a first and the second Reich:
The first Reich is Das Heilige Römische Reich Deutscher Nation ,
the second Reich was Das deutsche Kaiserreich 1871-1918
(Das deutsche Reich lasted from 1871 - 1945, i.e. the time encompassing the 3 Kaisers, the Weimar republic and the 3rd Reich - in 1944 even renamed Grossdeutsches Reich [Great German Reich] ).

Btw, the original 1949 Bundesrepublik consisted of 10 states*. The eleventh, Saarland, entered the Federal republic in 1957.

* counting the then 2 states of Baden and Württemberg as one state. These united in 1952 into the state Baden-Württemberg.

[vinteuil]

aeolium - many thanks for flagging this up.

Germany and German are, I am only too well aware, big gaps in my cultural awareness. As with many other people, the natural bent has seemed to be France and the Mediterranean - and it's only in my later years that I am becoming more aware how much I have missed out on by not having fuller immersion in things German (apart from the music... )

One lamentable feature of life in the English-speaking world is how little German literature gets translated. It's only because I have the French that I have been able to read (translated into French) lots of works by Stifter, Storm, Fontane - otherwise completely unavailable in English translations.

I am very much looking forward to Misha Glenny's programme.

[aeolium]

As with many other people, the natural bent has seemed to be France and the Mediterranean

Not for me - I was always much more interested in everything German (and Northern) than anything in southern Europe.

An interesting programme last night - but too short. Why did the series on Russia have 50 episodes and 12.5 hours of airtime and this German one lasts a paltry hour and a half in total?! I had not really appreciated the devastating impact of the Thirty Years War in German history (and the sinister resonance of the term Magdeburgisierung), thinking that it was the humiliation of the defeat by Napoleonic forces at Jena in 1806 that was the more significant. I suppose I ought to read Schiller's history of the Thirty Years War.

The comment along the lines of the Pomeranian and the Bavarian almost being like foreigners to one another was a striking one. One of the qualities that has attracted me to German culture is its multifariousness, the way it defies the pull of the centre, unlike some other European countries. Regionalism seems almost hard-wired into its culture. All those hundreds of little fiefdoms, the Hansa cities, the Prince-Bishoprics - extraordinary, though of course terribly vulnerable when the big powers clashed in the C17.

[amateur51]

One of the qualities that has attracted me to German culture is its multifariousness, the way it defies the pull of the centre, unlike some other European countries. Regionalism seems almost hard-wired into its culture. All those hundreds of little fiefdoms, the Hansa cities, the Prince-Bishoprics - extraordinary, though of course terribly vulnerable when the big powers clashed in the C17.

All those regional opera houses and orchestras! All those different wurst

Bloomin' marvellous!

[Simon]

I caught it. A truly excellent programme.

[aeolium]

A very good series (but I wish it had been longer). It was interesting to hear how several of those commentators considered 1866 to be a key year, the year in which Austria was defeated by Prussia and the old Germanic empire running through from the Danube to the north was split. Also the fateful seizure of Alsace-Lorraine in 1871 created a lasting source of friction. I was surprised to hear how unwelcome German unification was in some parts of Germany (especially unification under Prussia) - particularly unpopular in Cologne and Bavaria.

This was a history full of surprises - for instance the cultured Prussia of the late C18 shocked by the coarse militarism of the French - though I felt that there could have been more consideration of German culture (e.g. the rise of cultural nationalism with the Romantic movement). Perhaps for another series.