Michael Tippett: The Shadow and the Light

[RichardB]

presumably without consideration for how it would sound backwards

One does get a feeling for such things!

[Serial_Apologist]

One does get a feeling for such things!

Indeed! And Hindemith did much the same in his own Ludus Tonalis, presenting the Postlude, the concluding piece, as the Prelude in reverse.

[oddoneout]

One does get a feeling for such things!

Presumably just as well if, as the commentary suggested, it was done because he was running out of time to complete the composition...

[Pulcinella]

Caught up with this tonight, and was much more impressed than I thought I might be given some of the comments on this thread.
Surely there were enough examples of the more 'difficult' (both in terms of listening to and performing) music?

I never fail to find Child of our time immensely moving: the lead in to Steal away is for me an absolute pinnacle of inspiration.
I know that RichardB will think otherwise, but there are some transitional moments in Britten's War Requiem that I feel much the same about.

Given the excellent Hyperion recordings of Tippett that the BBCSSO has already made, dare we hope for more? You wouldn't learn bits of The vision of St Augustine just for this documentary would you?

[oddoneout]

Caught up with this tonight, and was much more impressed than I thought I might be given some of the comments on this thread.
Surely there were enough examples of the more 'difficult' (both in terms of listening to and performing) music?

I never fail to find Child of our time immensely moving: the lead in to Steal away is for me an absolute pinnacle of inspiration.
I know that RichardB will think otherwise, but there are some transitional moments in Britten's War Requiem that I feel much the same about.

Given the excellent Hyperion recordings of Tippett that the BBCSSO has already made, dare we hope for more? You wouldn't learn bits of The vision of St Augustine just for this documentary would you?

I also wondered about the music recordings - a lot of work as you say for just a brief showing. Perhaps they will get an airing in due course.

[Pulcinella]

My thoughts exactly (too bogged down in A Child of Our Time, Jung overlooked, the usual stories about 2nd Symphony premiere and non-orthodox opera libretti). I think 6 out of 10 is fair. Bridcut had wanted to make this film for a long time, but funding was no doubt the issue. The mix of personal life and music was good but hardly chronological - a knot garden in itself. I realise the complexities of some of the music are not prime time television-friendly but it would have between nice for major pieces like the 3rd Symphony to have got a look-in. In this respect, the lifelong significance of Beethoven to Tippett was a serious omission. And I think The Midsummer Marriage was dealt with in a sentence or two, versus 20 minutes for A Child of Our Time.

One revelation for me was not that the 3rd Piano Sonata's finale is a palindrome, but that it was composed only up to the halfway point, so presumably without consideration for how it would sound backwards - I thought he'd cleverly worked it all out in advance it sounds so good!!!

I hadn't known/realised this either, and (having slept on it overnight, as it were) wonder about the running out of time aspect mentioned: time before what? A planned performance? Other pieces were to come (including a fourth sonata), so was it a health concern?
(Shows how poorly I've read about the piece, despite having both the Crossley and Osborne recordings, and Ian Kemp's book on Tippett. )

The notes in Paul Crossley's recordings (written by Tippett himself) describe the last section (the three movements – fast/slow/fast – are supposed to be played without a break) thus:

The second fast is an ABA shaped toccata, where B is the mirror form of A1, and A2 is A1 shortened and with a coda.

So not exactly the overall palindrome that it was described as.

[oddoneout]

I hadn't known/realised this either, and (having slept on it overnight, as it were) wonder about the running out of time aspect mentioned: time before what? A planned performance? Other pieces were to come (including a fourth sonata), so was it a health concern?
(Shows how poorly I've read about the piece, despite having both the Crossley and Osborne recordings, and Ian Kemp's book on Tippett. )

The notes in Paul Crossley's recordings (written by Tippett himself) describe the last section (the three movements – fast/slow/fast – are supposed to be played without a break) thus:

The second fast is an ABA shaped toccata , where B is the mirror form of A1, and A2 is A1 shortened and with a coda.

So not exactly the overall palindrome that it was described as.

I don't remember the exact details but I think there was some element of a deadline which he felt he was not going to meet - due to his slow rate of getting ideas down on paper at the time? You'd have to find the bit where David Owen Norris mentions the 4 bar "anomaly" and the question he put to Tippett, and the answer given.

[Boilk]

A new, short article in in BBC Music Magazine: Martyn Brabbins discusses deciphering Tippett's notoriously difficult scores, with a focus on the 2nd symphony's first movement...

https://www.classical-music.com/features/works/interpreting-composer-michael-tippetts-musical-scores/

[oddoneout]

Just noticed that this evening's concert includes 2nd symphony.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m001mmbb

[Pulcinella]

Just noticed that this evening's concert includes 2nd symphony.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m001mmbb

Thanks for pointing this out.

But crikey: burgeoning lyricism?

Concertante and ballet music by Beethoven meets the burgeoning lyricism of Michael Tippett's Second Symphony in this concert from Hannover, in which the Skride sisters and Harriet Krijgh join forces with the NDR Radio Philharmonic Orchestra and conductor Andrew Manze in Beethoven’s Triple Concerto.

[smittims]

I suppose they're thinking of the emergence of the second subjects in each of the movements (especially the second). But the point is made: every piece has to have an adjective, however absurd it is to sum up a whole symphony in one word ('stunning', 'luxuriant', etc.).

[edashtav]

Thanks for pointing this out.

But crikey: burgeoning lyricism?

Concertante and ballet music by Beethoven meets the burgeoning lyricism of Michael Tippett's Second Symphony in this concert from Hannover, in which the Skride sisters and Harriet Krijgh join forces with the NDR Radio Philharmonic Orchestra and conductor Andrew Manze in Beethoven’s Triple Concerto.

‘Burgeoning lyricism’ maybe better suits the music of The Midsummer Marriage than Tippett’s 2nd symphony which is harder edged but… it still contains ‘pools of delicate lyricism’ as Andrew Clements has written, particularly in its second movement.

[Tevot]

‘Burgeoning lyricism’ maybe better suits the music of The Midsummer Marriage than Tippett’s 2nd symphony which is harder edged but… it still contains ‘pools of delicate lyricism’ as Andrew Clements has written, particularly in its second movement.

I'm a big fan of Tippett 2 and remember back in the day (some 40 years ago ) borrowing Colin Davis' recording from Bradford Central Library. Really enjoyed the recent documentary and I knew nothing of Francesca Allinson or Karl Hawker's stories. So sad. There must have been iron in Tippett's soul.

Anyway - the documentary has prompted me finally to listen to Midsummer Marriage and King Priam. Looking forward to both !

[Pulcinella]

I'm a big fan of Tippett 2 and remember back in the day (some 40 years ago ) borrowing Colin Davis' recording from Bradford Central Library. Really enjoyed the recent documentary and I knew nothing of Francesca Allinson or Karl Hawker's stories. So sad. There must have been iron in Tippett's soul.

Anyway - the documentary has prompted me finally to listen to Midsummer Marriage and King Priam. Looking forward to both !

Anyone know where the clip of Janet Baker as Sosostris can be found (and did she sing only the aria or the complete role)?

PS: Should have done some research first.
Kobbé tells me that there was a BBC Studio performance in 1963 (conducted by Normal Del Mar) with Janet Baker listed in the cast, so that must have been the occasion.

[oddoneout]

I'm a big fan of Tippett 2 and remember back in the day (some 40 years ago ) borrowing Colin Davis' recording from Bradford Central Library. Really enjoyed the recent documentary and I knew nothing of Francesca Allinson or Karl Hawker's stories. So sad. There must have been iron in Tippett's soul.

Anyway - the documentary has prompted me finally to listen to Midsummer Marriage and King Priam. Looking forward to both !

This might be of interest https://www.theguardian.com/music/20...ichael-tippett