Suzy Klein appointed as BBC Head of Arts and Classical Music TV

[french frank]

I can tell you that modern day music undergrads work way harder than they did 40 years ago…

My point is that during an undergraduate course there's only so much that a student is required to absorb, however hard they work. And having done so, that isn't in any way the equivalent of a lifetime of listening to classical music (since we're in the context of Radio 3 presenters). It doesn't even guarantee that it's instilled a lifelong passion for classical music.

[oddoneout]

I don't think it is a case of either/or. There needs to be a mix of academic and practical experience but above all surely ability to do the job, whether that is a subject specific programme or general presenting. It's no good knowing everything about subject A if you can't convey that effectively, not does that knowledge necessarily bring the skill to know such things as when to keep quiet, how to interview effectively, how to deal with making mistakes...

[french frank]

but above all surely ability to do the job, whether that is a subject specific programme or general presenting.

Yes, broadcasting ability and manner are crucial. Donald Macleod has admitted to being a bit of a 'bluffer', which means (in my view) that he works hard to prepare his programmes, even if he has no special expertise or formal qualifications in music.

[french frank]

Yes, broadcasting ability and manner are crucial. Donald Macleod has admitted to being a bit of a 'bluffer', which means (in my view) that he works hard to prepare his programmes, even if he has no special expertise or formal qualifications in music.

"Roger [Wright, Controller of BBC Radio 3] asked me to do Composer of the Week. I gulped and said that I didn’t think I could do all of it, and could I possibly do a bit of it. The answer was: “no, all or nothing.” So, it was really scary to do that to begin with. It had been a variable product, and no one person had done it before. It might be one presenter for one week, with a script that a producer had written. Or it might have been a leading expert, world authority on A, B or C. So, stepping into those shoes was terrifying, frankly, because I don’t have that depth of knowledge about any composer, let alone one. But, with a huge amount of help from my production team from that day to this, I have navigated my way through.”

https://www.classicalsource.com/article/bbc-radio-3s-composer-of-the-week-70th-birthday-celebrations-on-friday-2-august-2013-an-interview-with-presenter-donald-macleod/

That's the 'or' of the 'either/or'.

[Ein Heldenleben]

My point is that during an undergraduate course there's only so much that a student is required to absorb, however hard they work. And having done so, that isn't in any way the equivalent of a lifetime of listening to classical music (since we're in the context of Radio 3 presenters). It doesn't even guarantee that it's instilled a lifelong passion for classical music.

Since we are in the business of unsubstantiated assertions (though my stats on firsts at Oxford are accurate) it is evidently not the case that the academic study of music for three years is the same as a lifetime of listening to classical music . However virtually all those music grads will be at least grade 8 instrumentalists / singers with many approaching diploma standard. They will be skilled in composition , musical analysis , and have a good grounding in music history . If you don’t believe me look at the syllabus. Taken as a whole their mastery of the art form will be very considerably in excess of the music lover who has spent a lifetime simply going to concerts or listening to the radio and perhaps cannot even read music . However if that amateur has spent decades learning an instrument perhaps performing and composing - then that’s a very different matter.
I can tell you from direct personal experience that the many Oxford ( and indeed other university ) music graduates I’ve met over the years have an excellent grasp of the art and have also a passion for the art form. No one does the degree for a nice well paid job in the City or Law - though quite a few end up there !

[french frank]

Since we are in the business of unsubstantiated assertions (though my stats on firsts at Oxford are accurate) it is evidently not the case that the academic study of music for three years is the same as a lifetime of listening to classical music . However virtually all those music grads will be at least grade 8 instrumentalists / singers with many approaching diploma standard. They will be skilled in composition , musical analysis , and have a good grounding in music history . If you don’t believe me look at the syllabus. Taken as a whole their mastery of the art form will be very considerably in excess of the music lover who has spent a lifetime simply going to concerts or listening to the radio and perhaps cannot even read music . However if that amateur has spent decades learning an instrument perhaps performing and composing - then that’s a very different matter.
I can tell you from direct personal experience that the many Oxford ( and indeed other university ) music graduates I’ve met over the years have an excellent grasp of the art and have also a passion for the art form. No one does the degree for a nice well paid job in the City or Law - though quite a few end up there !

But, Heldenleben, I'm not disputing any of that. I'm just saying that doesn't necessarily make a good radio presenter.

[Ein Heldenleben]

But, Heldenleben, I'm not disputing any of that. I'm just saying that doesn't necessarily make a good radio presenter.

Oh well I agree on that . Weirdly having a lot of knowledge sometimes gets in the way …

[Ein Heldenleben]

"Roger [Wright, Controller of BBC Radio 3] asked me to do Composer of the Week. I gulped and said that I didn’t think I could do all of it, and could I possibly do a bit of it. The answer was: “no, all or nothing.” So, it was really scary to do that to begin with. It had been a variable product, and no one person had done it before. It might be one presenter for one week, with a script that a producer had written. Or it might have been a leading expert, world authority on A, B or C. So, stepping into those shoes was terrifying, frankly, because I don’t have that depth of knowledge about any composer, let alone one. But, with a huge amount of help from my production team from that day to this, I have navigated my way through.”

https://www.classicalsource.com/article/bbc-radio-3s-composer-of-the-week-70th-birthday-celebrations-on-friday-2-august-2013-an-interview-with-presenter-donald-macleod/

That's the 'or' of the 'either/or'.

Incidentally the producer of COTW is a recent Oxford music graduate !

[Cockney Sparrow]

This thread has moved on since I last came by…..

….it is evidently not the case that the academic study of music for three years is the same as a lifetime of listening to classical music. However virtually all those music grads …… their mastery of the art form will be very considerably in excess of the music lover who has spent a lifetime simply going to concerts or listening to the radio and perhaps cannot even read music . However if that amateur has……..

Without provocatively wearing it on my sleeve, I have been aware around these parts in latter months – aware of my lack of education, and hence academic authority, in music. I hasten to add though I am equally aware there are members, present, past and “inactive” who qualify as “music lovers” - such as myself.

But, Heldenleben, I'm not disputing any of that. I'm just saying that doesn't necessarily make a good radio presenter.

Oh well I agree on that . Weirdly having a lot of knowledge sometimes gets in the way …

That (in bold above, my edit) is an interesting thought….. I agree - “sometimes”. There is room for contributions from academics on Radio 3, as well as those “qualified by experience” - such as Rob Cowan (likely acquired also by hard work).

December 2020 post:

I was having a chat with Rob, he hopes to be back on air, one or another. I suggested internet radio. I don’t think he’ll be coming back to the BBC, after the way some of his colleagues treated him!

Which accords with the attitude conveyed a couple of years ago, when I was speaking to the partner of a BBC R3 music producer. To the effect (in rather brusque terminology) that Rob’s contribution and knowledge of recorded music performance wouldn’t be interesting enough - well, would positively deter the audience. By which he must have meant the target audience they think they are seeking, the nature of which we know only too well.

A shame – the unique ability of radio to illustrate different performances/styles, the history of recorded music and more is to be denied for bland superlatives and gimmikry. Record Review fails to refer to/survey the classic recordings in favour of a shortlist with an accent on present day performers more often than not. The much mourned “Interpretations on Record” is the perfect example of what we have lost.

But we know all this, our indignation crops up in numerous threads.

To my shame, I’ve never listened to a Gramophone podcast, despite subscription to the publication and database. I must give them a try – my mornings are free….. If the BBC won’t serve our needs, I keep coming back to the thought that a podcast would be the way to go……….. (As BBM indicated above – can I hope that Rob Cowan was receptive to the idea?)

[muzzer]

Surely the point is it’s a career administrator type of job for which working the beeb system is the most important qualification these days? Nobody is seriously kidding themselves that a top degree is relevant, no? It’s a form of intellectual snobbery to poo poo her otherwise. But anyway, if it gets her off the air I’m all for it. Sorry, SK, and while you’re at it check out WQXR’s presenters, despite being American they’re way less embarrassingly over earnest than Tome Service and Elizabeth Talker.

[Ein Heldenleben]

This thread has moved on since I last came by…..


Without provocatively wearing it on my sleeve, I have been aware around these parts in latter months – aware of my lack of education, and hence academic authority, in music. I hasten to add though I am equally aware there are members, present, past and “inactive” who qualify as “music lovers” - such as myself.





That (in bold above, my edit) is an interesting thought….. I agree - “sometimes”. There is room for contributions from academics on Radio 3, as well as those “qualified by experience” - such as Rob Cowan (likely acquired also by hard work).

December 2020 post:


Which accords with the attitude conveyed a couple of years ago, when I was speaking to the partner of a BBC R3 music producer. To the effect (in rather brusque terminology) that Rob’s contribution and knowledge of recorded music performance wouldn’t be interesting enough - well, would positively deter the audience. By which he must have meant the target audience they think they are seeking, the nature of which we know only too well.

A shame – the unique ability of radio to illustrate different performances/styles, the history of recorded music and more is to be denied for bland superlatives and gimmikry. Record Review fails to refer to/survey the classic recordings in favour of a shortlist with an accent on present day performers more often than not. The much mourned “Interpretations on Record” is the perfect example of what we have lost.

But we know all this, our indignation crops up in numerous threads.

To my shame, I’ve never listened to a Gramophone podcast, despite subscription to the publication and database. I must give them a try – my mornings are free….. If the BBC won’t serve our needs, I keep coming back to the thought that a podcast would be the way to go……….. (As BBM indicated above – can I hope that Rob Cowan was receptive to the idea?)

Two thoughts - the return of Rob Cowan would be most welcome . Rob might just be more popular and have a better relationship with the audience than the geniuses back at base ( also known as the Generals in the Château) realise.

Anything some one who works in broadcasting opines about “the audience “ is almost certainly wrong .As the great Hollywood screenwriter William Goldman said about those who work in film “nobody knows anything” . That’s what makes working in the business so fascinating.

[Old Grumpy]

Surely the point is it’s a career administrator type of job for which working the beeb system is the most important qualification these days? Nobody is seriously kidding themselves that a top degree is relevant, no? It’s a form of intellectual snobbery to poo poo her otherwise. But anyway, if it gets her off the air I’m all for it. Sorry, SK, and while you’re at it check out WQXR’s presenters, despite being American they’re way less embarrassingly over earnest than Tome Service and Elizabeth Talker.

Is not the phrase you seek "pooh-pooh". As the grandfather of a two year old, I know poo poo as something entirely different!

[french frank]

Surely the point is it’s a career administrator type of job for which working the beeb system is the most important qualification these days?

I might omit the word 'career' in that I don't know that that was where she was deliberately heading from the start. Though reading her bio, she does seem to have opted for journalism/broadcasting pretty soon after graduating. Yes, being a Beeb insider will be a personal advantage. I'm not sure what her priorities will be, though.

I think it's the sort of job where the top brass will be glad to say, 'Oh, she'll know what to do," and leave it to her. Rather like appointing a controller of R3.

[muzzer]

Is not the phrase you seek "pooh-pooh". As the grandfather of a two year old, I know poo poo as something entirely different!

Well, you might say that, I couldn’t possibly comment.

[AuntDaisy]

Couldn't resist posting SK's tweet - depending on your viewpoint, I guess it's some combination of :p *

https://twitter.com/suzyklein/status/1438849124368068614

* I blame French Frank for tempting me with Smilies