'They Shall Not Grow Old'

[LMcD]

I think this remarkable film deserves a thread of its own....In terms of structure, it's a perfect example of how to match form to content. That content is sometimes difficult to watch, but by the end I felt that I had been on a harrowing, but necessary, journey into my own family's history. Any doubts I may have had about colourisation or dubbing were removed as soon as I saw how skilfully and respectfully it had been done. I really can't recommend this film too highly. (NB: It's available on the iPlayer for SIX DAYS ONLY.

[DracoM]

[vinteuil]

.
... yes. Tho' it still grates that the title misquotes the Laurence Binyon poem -

They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old:
Age shall not weary them, nor the years contemn.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We will remember them.

.

[teamsaint]

I thought the section at the end, where soldiers described the general indifference that they met among the general population on their return ,was particularly poignant.

An article here by Derek Taylor sheds light on this.

https://www.historyextra.com/period/first-world-war/ww1-journalism-reporting-war-trenches-censorship-philip-gibbs-william-beach-thomas/

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

.
... yes. Tho' it still grates that the title misquotes the Laurence Binyon poem -

They shall grow not old, ...

Indeed, but some of the musical settings get it wrong too.

[vinteuil]

Indeed, but some of the musical settings get it wrong too.

... indeed they do. And it grates there too. Some people have cloth ears.


.

[Pabmusic]

Indeed, but some of the musical settings get it wrong too.

Elgar sets it as "not grow old" and siince he wrote it in consultation with Binyon, I imagine it had his impramatur.

[Tevot]

Hello there,

I haven't seen the whole film yet but I was deeply impressed and moved by the trailer for "They Shall not Grow Old" and by an excerpt of an interview between Mark Kermode and Peter Jackson which discussed the technical aspects involved in its making and the restoration of a century's old footage. Both of these are on Youtube and I showed both to some of my students who are aged between 13 and 16 and to whom at face value the Great War is alien and meaningless. That is, of course, until they saw the images spring to vivid life - gasping in amazement at what they were witnessing and hearing,

Best Wishes,

Tevot

[Keraulophone]

Elgar sets it as "not grow old" and siince he wrote it in consultation with Binyon, I imagine it had his impramatur.

Interesting, though perplexing. ‘Grow not old’ is surely more powerful. Two bars after figure 19, Elgar treats this line in a suitably mournful and equivocal manner, though at this point I’d say the poetry is better than its musical setting (IMVHO, of course).

We were treated to fine performances of The Spirit of England and RVW’s Dona Nobis Pacem a couple of days ago in the cathedral. Despite knowing the latter work since singing it as a schoolboy, for some reason that I can’t quite articulate, I found the Elgar rather more affecting than the VW in the context of this Armistice Centenary Concert, as indeed was Finzi’s wistful Eclogue. Some of Whitman’s poetry doesn’t help.

Peter Jackson’s film was remarkable - essential viewing.

[gurnemanz]

Interesting, though perplexing. ‘Grow not old’ is surely more powerful.

Peter Jackson’s film was remarkable - essential viewing.

I don't object to "not grow old". This is Mark Kermode in yesterday's Observer:
"As the titular (mis)quotation from Laurence Binyon’s poem For the Fallen suggests, Jackson has attempted to take ageing footage and make it young again – to bring history, and those who lived it, into the present."
The film's title might also be interpreted as a kind of updating, with obvious allusion to the poem but (deliberately?) not quoting directly and using conventional everyday prose.

Kermode also gives interesting insight into the "frames per second" aspect of the restoration:
"The century-old footage with which Jackson was working was shot at anything from 10 to 18 frames per second, with the rate often changing within a single reel. We’ve all seen old movies projected at the modern speed of 24fps, creating that skittering, agitated effect that fixes such footage in the dim and distant past. Here, Jackson and his team have used computers to build interstitial frames that recapture the rhythms of real life, tuning into the music of the soldiers’ movements, breathing intimate life into their smallest gestures."

What came across strongly was how the War came to so many as an exhilarating challenge - very much in tune with Rupert Brooke:

"Now, God be thanked Who has matched us with His hour,
And caught our youth, and wakened us from sleeping,"

Certainly "essential viewing".

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

IWhat came across strongly was how the War came to so many as an exhilarating challenge - very much in tune with Rupert Brooke:

"Now, God be thanked Who has matched us with His hour,
And caught our youth, and wakened us from sleeping,"

- I was reminded very strongly about what Pabs has said about Butterworth finding a real sense of fulfilment and identity whilst a soldier in the War - so much so that he might have abandoned composing and continued his military career afterwards, had he not been killed.

Certainly "essential viewing".

- a remarkable, magnificent achievement; totally astonishing.

[Stunsworth]

I found it deeply moving. The contrast between the scratchy jerky film at the beginning and the cut to widescreen colour when we got to the tranches was very well done - someone elsewhere compared it to the Wizard of Oz.

It was a lot more graphic than I was expecting. I certainly wasn't expecting the footage of a shell landing next to some cavalrymen, and the aftermath.

As for the people who 'enjoyed' the war, I expect they were in a very small minority. There was an old interview with a veteran broadcast last week and he was asked something to the effect of "Were you relieved when the armistice came?", the response was "What do you think". The fact that people were still fighting over land on the morning of the 11th that they'd have been able to walk across in the afternoon in mindboggling - yes Pershing, I'm looking at you.

[Keraulophone]

The film's title might also be interpreted as a kind of updating, with obvious allusion to the poem but (deliberately?) not quoting directly and using conventional everyday prose.

Thanks, gurnemanz. In view of this, Jackson's updating of the film's title makes perfect sense.

I'm still mystified as to Elgar's reasons for reversing the two words in his Op.80.

[Conchis]

I'm assuming the title was changed because the line, as written by Binyon, sounds archaic and, indeed, 'poetic'. Such things tend to alienate a mass audience - and the film is certainly aimed at a mass audience.

I enjoyed the film. I got the impression the true horror of what those people went through may not have manifested itself until many years later.

[Pabmusic]

I'm assuming the title was changed because the line, as written by Binyon, sounds archaic and, indeed, 'poetic'. Such things tend to alienate a mass audience - and the film is certainly aimed at a mass audience.

I enjoyed the film. I got the impression the true horror of what those people went through may not have manifested itself until many years later.

I quite agree about the title. The original is both archaic and ugly - by reversing two words it sounds so much more natural. I suspect Elgar (never a sensitive word-setter) realized this.