Speech Radio You Have Listened To Lately

[Bryn]

I'm not a Tom Service fan, but can strongly recommend 'The Cowpat Controversy', now on iPlayer under 'The Listening Service'. A stout - indeed, I would go so far as to say unanswerable - defence of early 20th century British composers, proving just how wrong Lutyens and Lambert were (and who listens to their music?) I might even have to reassess my views of Delius and Bax!

Re the question you pose, I listen to rather more Lutyens and Lambert than I do Delius or Bax. Sadly, far less of the former two's music is available in commercial recordings than is the case with Bax, Delius et al. Oh, and though I do find Service's vocal delivery troublesome, his writing is quite a different matter - nearly always worth reading. That said, his 2018 BBC Music Magazine piece on this subject (poorly OCRed in that link) rather failed to point out that Heseltine/Warlock's "it is all just a little too much like a cow looking over a gate" was aimed at RVW's music in general, and not, particularly, the Pastoral Symphony. It should be remembered that Heseltine/Warlock also wrote a biography of Delius, his fellow old-Etonian. Re Twelve-tone Lizzy, I would refer you to Rebeca Ramos's "The Horror Queen's English: Elisabeth Lutyens and the Paradoxes of Twentieth Century British Music", also from 2018.

[cloughie]

I cannot remember hearing any Lutyens composition and I could not name one. Perhaps EMI should have encouraged a recording of ‘Cluytens conducts Lutyens’ which any discerning music lover would have remembered!
Bax wrote some very good music but how many have the ‘Tintagel’ factor? Delius’ music I got tomknow from a young age mostly through Beecham’s recordings including his superb ‘Florida Suite’, ‘Appalachia’ and ‘Hassan’.

[LMcD]

Re the question you pose, I listen to rather more Lutyens and Lambert than I do Delius or Bax. Sadly, far less of the former two's music is available in commercial recordings than is the case with Bax, Delius et al. Oh, and though I do find Service's vocal delivery troublesome, his writing is quite a different matter - nearly always worth reading. That said, his 2018 BBC Music Magazine piece on this subject (poorly OCRed in that link) rather failed to point out that Heseltine/Warlock's "it is all just a little too much like a cow looking over a gate" was aimed at RVW's music in general, and not, particularly, the Pastoral Symphony. It should be remembered that Heseltine/Warlock also wrote a biography of Delius, his fellow old-Etonian. Re Twelve-tone Lizzy, I would refer you to Rebeca Ramos's "The Horror Queen's English: Elisabeth Lutyens and the Paradoxes of Twentieth Century British Music", also from 2018.

Sir Hugh Allen (about whom I know absolutely nothing other than his authorship of the comment in question) opined that the Pastoral Symphony brought to mind Vaughan Williams 'rolling over and over in a ploughed field on a wet day'. I suppose it makes a change from Bloomsbury on a November afternoon ....
To what extent can the dearth of commercial recordings of the works of certain composers be compensated for by the ease with which music can be placed before the public through other platforms - or are the complications regarding ownership, copyright and financial recognition insuperable?

[gradus]

R4 book of the week is Natives:Race and Class in the Ruins of Empire by Akala. Polemical, extremely challenging and well worth hearing.

[Cockney Sparrow]

Regularly featured in Private Eye for years. The board of directors of the PO were completely negligent in oversight - never asked and investigated why the rash of alleged criminality amongst sub-postmasters who had bought their corner stores to make a living? And one of those directors is a serving member of the non-stipendiary clergy in the C of E. The hope is that the damages for negligent or malicious prosecutions, deprivation of liberty and living will be eye watering. (I'm behind with my reading of Private Eye, but I have half a notion, though, that ultimately, "losses" sustained by actions in that period might be underwritten by the Treasury).

I don't know who staffs the PO investigations team but they have (and should not have) the power to prosecute. Speculating, outfits like that are often staffed by ex-policemen who have taken their pension at the first opportunity. Thinking about it, they are completely unregulated in those roles - they don't have the Independant police complaints body to worry about. I met professionally some of those sorts, and a number of them were, putting the best gloss on it, short-cut merchants. I do hope they lose the power to prosecute, or at the very least become subject to the CPS authorisation process.

On the subject of the Eye, whilst I don't maintain an index, quite a few issues from their columns over the years (and years) are becoming exposed to the harsh glare of sunlight - for example the revolving door between private sector placemen in the government machine (not to be classed with decent career civil servants in my book) who then go on to roles in the commercial sector they dealt with. The HMRC officials who construct the tax legislation labyrinth who then go on to work for the Big 5 (5?) accountancy firms and know exactly where the low tax secret escape routes can be found. And yet people still comment that compared to other countries, we ain't seen nothing yet if we call that corruption.

I have taken a Times digital subscription. I keep wondering whether to give it up - I should really make my first priority the News They Don't Want Us to Know. I'm not talking about deranged conspiracy theorists who think we are in the End Times - I'm talking about Private Eye!

There is a R4 programme updating the situation following the Appeal Court Clearing 39 postmasters. From the Judgement :
“The failures of investigation and disclosure were in our judgment so egregious as to make the prosecution of any of the ‘Horizon cases’ an affront to the conscience of the court."
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...o-corrupt-data

"In a follow up to the ten-part series The Great Post Office Trial, Nick Wallis explores how campaigners for justice around the Post Office scandal have been continuing the fight, and reveals startling new details on the story which have emerged in court"

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000wl4b

And also, some greater insight to the Horizon system (“legacy” system; remote communities – real time connection drops – transactions “lost” etc etc). (in “The Digital Human” programme)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000wl3y

[vinteuil]

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... I am not a fan of 'Lord' Melvyn Bragg - but because I was interested in the subject I listened today to In Our Time on Kant, and the contributions by John Callanan, Anil Gomes, and Fiona Hughes were absorbing : a lucid and elegant account which made me feel I might at last begin to understand what Kant was on about. Very impressive - recommended.

Also excellent - Natalie Haynes Stands Up For The Classics. The last two - on Pandora's Box and on Jocasta really good. Some serious linguistic scholarship underpinning her unpicking the story of Pandora and her jar/box. The etymology of Prometheus (Foresight) warning his brother Epimetheus (Hindsight) not to accept a gift from Zeus (the 'gift' being Pandora) was nice, and the niggle as to whether Pan-dora shd be read as 'all gifted' or 'all giving' was really interesting. I was tickled by her point that so much of what we now think we know about Pandora and her Box is rooted in a mistranslation by Erasmus...

Odd that while Radio 3, the kulchur channel, seems to be selling its soul for who knows what mess of pottage - over on Radio 4 they are still making grown-up thought-provoking programmes


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[johncorrigan]

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... I am not a fan of 'Lord' Melvyn Bragg - but because I was interested in the subject I listened today to In Our Time on Kant, and the contributions by John Callanan, Anil Gomes, and Fiona Hughes were absorbing : a lucid and elegant account which made me feel I might at last begin to understand what Kant was on about. Very impressive - recommended.

Also excellent - Natalie Haynes Stands Up For The Classics. The last two - on Pandora's Box and on Jocasta really good. Some serious linguistic scholarship underpinning her unpicking the story of Pandora and her jar/box. The etymology of Prometheus (Foresight) warning his brother Epimetheus (Hindsight) not to accept a gift from Zeus (the 'gift' being Pandora) was nice, and the niggle as to whether Pan-dora shd be read as 'all gifted' or 'all giving' was really interesting. I was tickled by her point that so much of what we now think we know about Pandora and her Box is rooted in a mistranslation by Erasmus...

Odd that while Radio 3, the kulchur channel, seems to be selling its soul for who knows what mess of pottage - over on Radio 4 they are still making grown-up thought-provoking programmes


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I don't normally like Natalie Haynes, vinteuil, but I think this series has benefited from the lack of an audience and she is not chasing so many lame laughs. I also found myself enjoying the programme about Pandora. And I think I need another listen to the Kant programme - I was finding it very interesting it but there was an expression that they kept using which I didn't understand and I need to go check it out.
One thing that I have found in the time of covid is that comedy programmes which have an audience who are online are really annoying - at least I find them that way - the laughter by an audience of individuals sounds so fake, and puts me off the content of the programme - even worse than canned laughter.

[ardcarp]

I listened today to In Our Time on Kant, and the contributions by John Callanan, Anil Gomes, and Fiona Hughes were absorbing : a lucid and elegant account which made me feel I might at last begin to understand what Kant was on about. Very impressive - recommended.

Ditto. Being a mere musician, I've always been a bit sceptical about Philosophy as a subject, but following the twists and turns of today's In Our Time made me less so. I know Melvyn has his critics, but the mere fact he's chaired that programme (with varying degrees of lucidity) for so long and covered so many topics makes him surely one of the Beeb's stalwarts. Such a shame that Music is very seldom (if ever?) on the list of subjects. I've written to the programme several times about that; and also mentioned that they might do a programme on Thomas Young, polymath, scientist, music theorist and important contributor to the deciphering of the Rosetta Stone.

[ardcarp]

John Finnemore's Souvenir Programme today was excellent. So much R4 comedy is laid on with a trowel...plus added applause...this is quite different, and original.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000wlnr

[gurnemanz]

Ditto. Being a mere musician, I've always been a bit sceptical about Philosophy as a subject, but following the twists and turns of today's In Our Time made me less so. I know Melvyn has his critics, but the mere fact he's chaired that programme (with varying degrees of lucidity) for so long and covered so many topics makes him surely one of the Beeb's stalwarts. Such a shame that Music is very seldom (if ever?) on the list of subjects. I've written to the programme several times about that; and also mentioned that they might do a programme on Thomas Young, polymath, scientist, music theorist and important contributor to the deciphering of the Rosetta Stone.

When I was a student of German Lit a long time ago (Kleist's Kant-Krise got a mention this morning) our professor encouraged us to read Kant. I possess a copy of Kritik der reinen Vernunft in the original language (856 pages), almost untouched to this day. I sort of got the gist of what he was on about. I remember Bertrand Russell's comment to the effect that philosophers before Kant had the big advantage that they didn't have to read Kant.

I don't think Melv deserves to have his Lord in inverted commas, as above. We owe him a lot over the years and if you're going to have an unelected upper house why not have a culture guru like him in it?

[johncorrigan]

John Finnemore's Souvenir Programme today was excellent. So much R4 comedy is laid on with a trowel...plus added applause...this is quite different, and original.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000wlnr

I think I am going to have to go back and listen to the whole series, ardcarp - I find it really entertaining when I hear it, though I haven't completely got to grips with the concept of the whole thing; but it feels very original to me.

[gradus]

Ed Reardon's back in a new series next Tuesday R4 at 18.30. Yippee!

[vinteuil]

I'm not a Tom Service fan, but can strongly recommend 'The Cowpat Controversy', now on iPlayer under 'The Listening Service'. A stout - indeed, I would go so far as to say unanswerable - defence of early 20th century British composers, proving just how wrong Lutyens and Lambert were (and who listens to their music?) I might even have to reassess my views of Delius and Bax!

... I was not convinced by his special pleading. My dislike for this kind of music remains unaltered

.

[Andrew]

Ed Reardon's back in a new series next Tuesday R4 at 18.30. Yippee!

You have just made my weekend, my week and possibly this year! Ed Reardon (or "Ed Reardona", to quote a name is was suggested he adopted) IS the antidote to all the problems our lives face a ce moment and I recommend it to the House!

[ardcarp]

Young Prince Philip

I could not be described as a 'royalist', and in fact news about royal babies, brides, scandals, etc finds me utterly un-interested. However the current series this week on R4 at 0945 is fascinating. The incredibly unsettled and at times sad and unloved childhood would be just as extraordinary if the person concerned were not 'a royal'.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000vjd3

One quote struck me. When asked, aged about 9, what language he (Philip) spoke at home, he relied, "What do you mean by home?"